Please Hear Me Out

[New_U.S.]

For months I have been wanting a political issues forum. Now I have just said the magic word for 'Close Thread' by saying 'Politics' but please hear me out. Two main arguements have been used against this time of forum: 1) It would take time to put in place and moderate this forum. 2) The big one was it was thought that members could not handle not trying to force their ideas on others and it would turn into a giant flame. These are significant problems and an entire forum built for this before any test run would be stupid. However I would want permission to do a few things so that maybe one day this forum would be allowed. I would want to first have a classroom in which I could teach basic debating skills and give real sources. Next I would be able to do a moderated debate (I would personally moderate) for the ones who did the class. They would be able to talk and speak about their views on the topic. Maybe then by their example others could join in. If done in a mature way maybe an actual forum could spring up eventually. I really want this to pass because I would love to see topics such as current event issues, policy issues, history debate, etc. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Thx~ New_U.S.

 

[ReVolver]

But you don't want people to be like "Your Leader sucks" or "Why is this country's government corrupted?" it will be a hard time to moderate these comments all the time.

 

[Ninva]

Many people have suggested this idea, and I've been thinking to do the same, but if you really want to debate and discuss the "deep stuff (yo)" try Goth's High's forum. They don't get too many, so it wouldn't kill to post a few of your own.
I doubt TH would change their ways unless I agree with their policies. Then they'll just go behind my back and change them just to piss me off like they've done a few times.
(kidding)

 

[New_U.S.]

But you don't want people to be like "Your Leader sucks" or "Why is this country's government corrupted?" it will be a hard time to moderate these comments all the time.

Thats why at the begining it would be class members only. I would go through how using better selected words is more persuasive.

 

[Rheias]

It has been offered before. Personally, I don't feel like a debate forum would be good here. While we got some wonderful, mature members, many will spam or flame. The only way this forum could be moderated is if it will be watched closely all the time, and even then, my guess is that over half of the posts would be deleted. Many people are simply not built for reasonable debates.

Creating a forum, just for several approved members, is not an option as it would create waves of spam ("I want to be approved too!" etc.). I'm not sure what can be done.

 

[Jessi]

I strongly support this. Powerful topics, such as politics, religion, etc, should not be ignored. They should be dealt with maturely, for sure, but should not be removed entirely simply because of the immature people that cant handle that.

A strict set of rules and guidelines must be posted and followed.

Ya, itll have to be moderated strictly and frequently, but imo it's worth it. I would volunteer myself to help moderate it, if my help is needed.

 

[Rheias]

> A strict set of rules and guidelines must be posted and followed.

That's the tough part. Make them be followed. I don't like the idea of forcing debates, by deleting threads etc. Debates should be interesting becuase who is in them, and not interesting becuase they were forced.

 

[New_U.S.]

At the begining it would start just as single topic, limited time period set thing. I would personally (and excepting any help offered) would moderate. This debate would be done after already having a classroom set on persuation. If anyone had questions on what not to do they could refer to that. If at the end, even moderation and classes don't help at all, well then I guess the idea could be scrapped. However if the idea works out, maybe a forum could come up.

Thoughts?

EDIT:

That's the tough part. Make them be followed. I don't like the idea of forcing debates, by deleting threads etc. Debates should be interesting becuase who is in them, and not interesting becuase they were forced.

Forcing anti-flame isnt bad. However if first shown better ways of saying things it would go more smoothly. For example, say the topic was immigration and if illegal immigrants should be legalized. A bad thing to say would be, "Illegal immigrants are evil and should all be deported" Thats a flame. However I had to debate this once (got put on the side against it) I said (just as one arguement against it (Quote)) "Every year, more U.S. citizens are killed by illegal aliens then the total number of U.S. soldier deaths in the entire Iraq war. You constantly watch these pictures of explosions and death on the TV screen yet you can't see the the greater threat..." (not really what I believe but hey! it supported my side) You see the difference? One sounds a bit more meaningful then the other.

 

[U are a noob]

Properly hidden in the right location and the average flamer won't find the forum .

 

[Rheias]

You are assuming the people that will spam will join the classroom. Quite the opposite. You are also assuming you could handle it alone. I doubt that as well. And even if you could, is that how we want debates to go? To see posts appear and disappear, and the debate being forced?

I oppose, but let's hear other people's opinion.

 

[New_U.S.]

1 topic at a time at the begining, its not the hardest thing on Earth. When you say that noone will use the help given on persuation, then your saying that noone want to use help at a site known as TheHelper. Flame can come in any forum. There is no reason why this shouldn't be allowed to go for at least one topic.

 

[DDRtists]

We've tried this in the past, it did not turn out well. Take a look at all the dota hate/love threads, now picture it about Politics, but only with 3x more flaming and swearing.

This is a help forum, not a debate forum. There are many of those out there.

 

[U are a noob]

We've tried this in the past, it did not turn out well. Take a look at all the dota hate/love threads, now picture it about Politics, but only with 3x more flaming and swearing.

This is a help forum, not a debate forum. There are many of those out there.

What? How can you compare debates about a game to real life problems? Plus the word "Dota" is a noob attractor. Also all of the recent dota threads have not became anything close to a flame war. Its more of a -rep war.

>Properly hidden in the right location and the average flamer won't find the forum .

I say that because when is the last time you've seen a noob in the graphic or writing zone? How about music and movies? I've yet to see any. The "noob/flamers" are attracted to the of this site warcraft not the full website.


Edit: There has to be good regulations to stray away from threads like : " Rome vs Greece" or "Why is <insert name> so stupid". But if properly done I truly believe this will add verity to the website and attract members and more activity on this site.

 

[Doom-Angel]

sorry for the ignorance but what's a debate?

 

[DDRtists]

sorry for the ignorance but what's a debate?

Disusing something without insulting or just ranting about how the other is wrong.

Unfortunately, most "discussions" with teenagers involved end up in a one way "Mines right Yours is wrong" rant.

 

[SFilip]

Apart from several of our staff members (including myself) being against this...
We tried it. Several times actually. Still are. We even have a forum that can be used for this, called the News zone which occasionally offers debatable topics.
Every time, every time, we get someone who just can't refrain himself from saying how much people who disagree with him suck (with a couple of F words as a bonus). As long as these things keep happening TH will not have a debate forum.
Moderating is one thing, but we still don't have a good idiot filter around I'm afraid.

There are forums on the internet dedicated to debates that have heavy moderation and all, TH is not one of them.

 

[Rheias]

SFilip raised an important point.
The news forum.
You would see there from time to time debates there. Visit that forum more often. If you see a news (that applies the rules) that you want to discuss, post it, if it is interesting people will come to talk about it.

 

[DDRtists]

Also using the news forum as an example, there are many controversial threads that had to be closed due to flaming and rude posts.

 

[AceHart]

> what's a debate?

A discussion where everyone enters with his or her own weird idea, and they leave with my opinion.


> a political issues forum

Bush's foreign "politics" (random example) aren't even discussed on actual political debate forums...


Unfortunately, this thing is only at its beginnings:
http://stupidfilter.org/main/


And, my all time favorite FAQ:

Question:
This is Free Speech, so I can post whatever I want, right?

Answer:
MUAHAHAHAHA! HAHAHA! Free Speech! No, it's not. We own this place, see, and you play according to our rules. It's like our own "Mom knows best, dear".

 

[Andrewgosu]

Unfortunately, this thing is only at its beginnings:
http://stupidfilter.org/main/

I see the world's population decreasing to a few million.