The right to bear arms

[Varine]

Let's have a new topic to think about:

People break into your house to steal stuff (I fail to see why everyone says 'Oh if someone was good they would wait until you're not at home,' go for a stroll through Oakland or Detroit), you happen to be there. They have guns, you have... kitchen utensils. You try and stop them (or just happen to be there at the time) who is going to win? Probably not you.

Now if they were breaking into someone's house who happened to have a gun around, he runs and grabs it (similarly to you running to grab a knife or something), suddenly he doesn't need to be a foot away to do damage (and don't tell me to throw the knife that's stupid). Amazing isn't it? Someone was saved because he had a gun.

And if you do ever go walk through gangstaland cities, take note that people have automatic weapons, like uzi's or Mac 10's. Where can I get one of those? Not at a gun store, but amazingly they would probably have the same guy to go to when you have nothing. Except knives to throw... unless those are banned to. I wish ballistic knives were legal those are cool.

 

[New_U.S.]

China's active military is twice as big as ours. They're reserve is almost as big as our active. They're paramilitary is bigger than our active, reserve, and paramilitary combined. They have more people fit for service than we do population. You don't think it's a possibility that we'll be invaded, then it's partly ignorance and partly the same thing that everyone else in the US has issues with and thinking we're invincible and don't lose. Our economy is down, so is everyone's so it won't fucking matter. China owns almost half of our debt, and with us trying to force them to recognize Taiwan as not theirs, they aren't happy. No one thought 9/11 would happen, no one thought Japan would hit Pearl Harbor, because everyone feels that we're invincible. If the US were gone, the other major powers would thrive because we wouldn't be around to threaten them not to do anything. It can happen and it's quite possible, and the best time to take us down would be when we're close to civil war... like now. And I don't think they would necessarily win, but think about the damage that they would cause? And our weapons and everything might be better, but they could easily just overwhelm us.

They aren't hiding the fact that they're prepared to do it either. They have the plans printed in military textbooks. They're plan would be to hit us first, and hit as hard as they can. Which given the size of their military, would be pretty fucking hard. Our forces aren't usually forward deployed. The Chinese aren't stupid, they know that head to head, we would have a good shot at winning, and if we push back into their land, they're fucked. It would be short and intense fights, a single campaign at a time. They aren't like our military, they won't be worried about civilian casualties. If they want to invade us, and I'm sure it's getting to the point where they'll be thinking about it soon, they will and they will lose or win, and even if they do lose, they'll recover just like we will, and they'll sure fuck up a lot of the US.

This is saying that its a total ground war. To land that many troops is logistically impossible.

The U.S. Navy has 12 aircraft carriers, the Chinese 1. The U.S. has 50 destroyers, the Chinese have 21. The U.S. 92 frigates, the Chinese have 42. Submarines? U.S. - 75, China- 68. The U.S. Navy is much larger then China's. To say they could secretly transport that many men and supplies across the Pacific unnoticed is ludicrous.

How about Allied support? What nations are going to step up and help China? At best Russia, although I'd doubt Russia would do that. U.S. - Russian relations aren't good, but they aren't bad enough to support an aggressive China. North Korea maybe? As for the U.S., NATO is a pretty good booster, as well as East Asian allies such as Japan, Republic of Korea, Taiwan, and Australia.

Air superiority? Goes to the U.S. as well. Jian-10 fighters would get fucked up by F22s.

And who said we're close to a civil war? And even if we were, that the exact reason why you would NOT attack. Why not let a country tear itself apart rather then unifying it against you.

The Chinese do have some tactical advantages, such as their huge military manpower, but they lack the technology, and the strategic necessities to pull off an invasion of the U.S.

You can go back to the topic again :thup:

 

[Varine]

How about Allied support? What nations are going to step up and help China? At best Russia, although I'd doubt Russia would do that. U.S. - Russian relations aren't good, but they aren't bad enough to support an aggressive China. North Korea maybe? As for the U.S., NATO is a pretty good booster, as well as East Asian allies such as Japan, Republic of Korea, Taiwan, and Australia.

The middle east; possibly Russia; North Korea, although I doubt they would do much if anything; South America; if they hid their ships as transport, which isn't that hard, we wouldn't be allowed to engage. Even if they didn't, we wouldn't be allowed to engage until they entered US waters at which point they would already be close enough to shell the shore. More logically I would imagine that they would come up through South America somewhere to avoid that. There's a lot of advancements and ways around that; and actually they have a missile that our radar can't pick up specifically to attack ships. We have absolutely no defense against it right now because we don't have a test target for it. And we only have 145 F22's, which would beat the fuck out of J10's and 11's, but it's not invulnerable; if you put enough flak in the air at it, eventually you'll hit one.

And who said we're close to a civil war? And even if we were, that the exact reason why you would NOT attack. Why not let a country tear itself apart rather then unifying it against you.

A hell of a lot of people; if the country keeps going down the path it is, probably won't be very hard to start one. We already have states threatening to secede if certain bills pass that have major support.

 

[Viikuna]

Jesus, you guys really dont know nothing about 21th century millirary stuff or politics.

But lemme get this straight:

We live in a modern world which is run by money. Business is what controls everything. Money is what matters.

1) So, no one will ever attack USA, unless it is good for business. This rules out all the countries USA makes business with. ( See how baddly some USA house loan fuck ups hurt all these countries, ey. )

2) It wont work, mostly because USA spends more money for military weapon stuff than other 15 strongest armed countries together. And it would be too big scale. Stuff like that just cant happen, now because theres nuclear weapons.

3) Some poor guys in some poor countries would probably want to hurt USA for several reasons, but they just cant do it by any other way than supporting some terrorist attacks or killing US troops in Iraq or Afganistan.

So, cut the crap about USA being invated, lols. You just make fools out of youselves.

Also:

Yes it does. I mean I can hunt with a bow too but I can't shoot it as far. Oh I can shoot people with bows too... damn it.

This makes no sense. People can also keep animals for food or whatever without having to hunt them which is also lot of easier and better business. Your arguments are just really weird and confusing, I have to say.

 

[Varine]

This makes no sense. People can also keep animals for food or whatever without having to hunt them which is also lot of easier and better business. Your arguments are just really weird and confusing, I have to say.

I'm not raising deer and elk so I can keep them for food. That's the stupidest argument ever, that wouldn't be fun at all. I LIKE to hunt, and I go bow hunting too sometimes although I prefer rifle. Suggestion I raise the animals or the ban hunting and instead I have to go buy it is just stupid.

It wont work, mostly because USA spends more money for military weapon stuff than other 15 strongest armed countries together. And it would be too big scale. Stuff like that just cant happen, now because theres nuclear weapons.

We wouldn't use a nuclear weapon right now. The second someone launches one of those, it becomes a nuclear powered WWIII.

I don't think you know anything about tactical or strategic combat, your arguments aren't very good. Like nuclear weapons? It's incredibly doubtful that most countries would dare to use them. If we launch a nuke at China, they shoot one at us, North Korea starts shooting whatever the hell they have, India and Pakistan start blowing each other up, everyone would start using one. That's why no one is using them now. Our forces are spread too thin right now, and the rest of the world is aware of that. China starts a small naval war, our navy is too busy in the middle of Pacific to stop them from going around, even if they were fucked up in the battle which I doubt would happen because our Pacific Fleet is what would be engaging them and they're fleet would stand a pretty good chance against it. And that's assuming out entire fleet engaged them at once, and with their new missiles they would have a huge advantage. Get over the 'we're invulnerable' idealism; everyone thinks that until a fucking bomb falls on their house. We have a big military, yes, but along with that we have shitty leadership and a not very loyal civilians.

 

[Viikuna]

that wouldn't be fun at all

Lol. Fun has nuthing to do with it. Some guy might feel that its fun to hunt deers with flamthrower so you dont have to barbeque them after killing.

Should they sell flamethrowers in WallMart then?


And about nukes: The power of nukes is that everybody craps their pants because of them. They are not to be used. Its enough that they exist.

Thats why there havent been any big scale wars with strong modern countries after WW2.

No one is stupid enough to attack country with nukes, just because there is a change that that country actually uses them, which would mean something like the end of the world.

Its like playing Russian Roulette with unknown chance to win few 5$ ( damn thats cool!) and unknown chance to get bullet in your head.

Its simple: its just not worth of it.

 

[Varine]

Lol. Fun has nuthing to do with it. Some guy might feel that its fun to hunt deers with flamthrower so you dont have to barbeque them after killing.

Should they sell flamethrowers in WallMart then?

Aerosol can and a lighter suffices. And they do actually, it's just powered by propane. However flamethrowers and rifles aren't remotely the same thing, and I intend on hunting with my rifle. If the country is going to get so fucked up and under government control, I'm going back to Russia where I can have my gun. Maybe then they'll attack you, might as well at that point, the country won't be worth much if all of this shit passes.

 

[thewrongvine]

lol, Viikuna means that people wouldn't attack since the costs and reasons are dumb. Varine says USA isn't invincible. Both of you are true there so just skip that arguement.
But that still has nothing to do with the right to bear arms...

~Hai-Bye-Vine~