Who hates AOS maps and why

[Slaughter]

I don't hate them. I like them. Reasons:

1. PVP competition. I like a td or a kodo tag every now and again, but maps in which you play against human opponents offer the potential for new things to happen every game, and human opponents can be clever and creative.

2. Symmetry. Sheep Tag is ok, and Dark Deeds too (better because you don't have to spend 2 hours recruiting a player willing to be against all the others), but in an AOS, every player has the same role as every other.

3. There are two teams for a reason. In Footman Wars you can face an impossible situation if (for the sake of argument) one of the four teams suicides all its spawns to one of the others. With two teams, your team's loss is the other team's gain.

The popular AOS games right now have some aspects that I don't like. DotA takes to long to finish a game. EotA is worse in that respect.

So, please give me your opinion on the genre. Blizzard seems to like them all right, having named three AOS maps to the hall of fame, and only one other map. Also, the current spotlight map is an AOS (Battleships).

Edit:
This is a flame-prone subject, I know. Try to restrain yourselves.

 

[Erkie]

You seemed to be very hypocritical about the doings of our GTA project, you seemed to jump on every descripancy in an AoS, and elaborate, and then quickly retract your comments as soon as we prove you wrong. I find it quite annoying.

That's my only beef, otherwise, I think any AoS can go wrong simply by overkill with godly players.

 

[DDRtists]

One word, DotA

Thats why i hate aos, and there boring

 

[SFilip]

what is EotA?

anyway i like almost all AOS maps...but i hate dota
DDay is probably my favourite but there are other nice AOS maps out there

 

[Jimpy]

Just wondering.. Whats Aos stand for?
And is there sort of a definition of the game genre?

And I'm not a big fan of some Aos maps... I rarely play dota, usually with friends who want to, but I find the game relys quite heaviliy on the noob factor which cna be explained in a math equation.

Losing Team = 5 players / good players = Bad player

Losing Team = Badplayer(s) X 100 - Other Teams Bad Player = Worst player

Losing Team = Owner Of worst player!!!

I find who ever has the biggest noob player always loses. Even if its 3 against 5 and the 5 has the total noob (usually me), that team loses.

Also Dota is fairly slow, I find i always get the same few heroes, the heroes arent balanced, terrain is moderate and item combos are totally retarded. I cant figure out how to make half the things if i study them for like 5 minutes.

And I hate the imported sounds, they just dont fit with warcraft.

I do like battle ships, tank wars, and a couple other maps like them but I really hate the poor cracked up edited versions people come out with such as battle ships supe spawns (spawns like 20 boates instead of 3) Id rather have in ingame option that lets you choose this.

Offtopic : If anyone is good with multioards please message me, I need your help!

 

[PB_and_J]

AOS = aoen of strife, the first map in that desing.

 

[Sargon]

I find them fun to play, generally. And isn't that all that matters?

 

[Sud]

Sargon likes unconventional heroes tho

 

[Slaughter]

to SFilip - EotA is Eye of the Apocalypse. It's a very deep and engaging tactical AOS, with zone control elements and some degree of player control over spawns. It is too heavy for my computer, though, and games take at least ninety minutes. My main gripe, apart from game length, is lack of flavor in the heros. Also, I don't find the game that appealing, visually. The scaled-down creeps don't look good to me.

You can get EotA from the Blizzard Hall of Fame.

to Sargon - yeah, fun is what matters. The question was kind of...why do you/don't you think they're fun.

to DDRtists - any thoughts on why they're boring? ^^ I'd like to hear about what gameplay elements turn you off, in case I try my hand at AOS mapping, so that I know what to avoid.

to Erkie - what in particular struck you as hypocritical? And what did I retract? I apologized to uareanoob for my noobish forum conduct (giving -rep inappropriately, very gauche), but that's not remotely related to any criticism of a map. I criticised him for making longish posts with only a little new content, not for any kind of map design idea.

I'd like to add another reason that I think AOS maps are fun, which is the same as the main reason that ladder players scorn AOS maps.

4. Micro ceiling. You only have one unit (barring summons or leaver-micro, which is much rarer than it used to be), so there is not nearly so much potential for micro as in Warcraft 3 melee. Trying to play at more than a relaxed level of apm (actions per minute, to pre-empt the question) can be tiring, and while the practically unlimited potential for micro in StarCraft allows for practically unlimited application of skill, it also means that players face the daunting reality that there is always more they 'should' have done. I don't know if it's true, I'm no-where near quick enough to be a war3 gosu, but I have heard that the potential for micro in WarCraft 3 is less than that in StarCraft: some gosus have played games in which they actually did everything they could do. Anyway an AOS offers lazy schmoes like me the opportunity to realistically pursue a perfect game, in which I do everything right.

Another reason I think AOS maps are fun .

to Sud - so do I. Nothing more satisfying than those crazy kills with Illuminate.

 

[Sud]

My main gripe, apart from game length, is lack of flavor in the heros.

You'd probably like CoD, which has very active heroes you can "feel" while you play them, but if Eota runs slow on your computer, CoD will absolutely eat it alive - it takes a lot of resources.

Micro ceiling.

Another nice thing about CoD, there is no ceiling. The gameplay in and of itself requires a high APM rate to be a competitive player, mainly due to the fact it doesn't play like Eota, Dota, or a lot of AoSes which feature autoaiming spells. If you sit still for too long, chances are someone's going to destroy you.

it also means that players face the daunting reality that there is always more they 'should' have done.

That's one of the reasons why a lot of Dota players who play CoD are turned away from it. They can't stand that the game requires more from you than Dota does.

I'm no-where near quick enough to be a war3 gosu, but I have heard that the potential for micro in WarCraft 3 is less than that in StarCraft: some gosus have played games in which they actually did everything they could do.

Starcraft emphasized more a combination of macro and micro. Warcraft puts most of the focus on micro, by giving units higher hitpoints and making each battle a struggle to finish units off before they get away. In Starcraft, a swarm of infantry can be gone in the blink of an eye due to a psi storm. In warcraft, there isn't anything near resembling that hard a counter.

Anyway an AOS offers lazy schmoes like me the opportunity to realistically pursue a perfect game, in which I do everything right.

Mainly due to the lack of available things to do "wrong" per se. Something like Dota has very little to offer a high APM high talent player. There aren't very many opportunities amongst the autoaim spells and pre-determined item combos for you to outthink, outreact, and outfight the other guy. Someone with 40 APM and perhaps Grubby coming out of a WCL game meet each other in Dota, say Leoric vs Sven, and they are going to bolt each other simultaneously, there is no other outcome. There is no micro to dodge the spell, there is no aim to place it successfully. Cause and effect, no in between.

That's why I don't play the typical dumbed down AoS anymore. There's just no point. It's like trying to bring tactics to a game of go fish, your effort is wasted.

 

[Slaughter]

CoD sounds like fun. I enjoy Dota's 'aiming' spells, like KotL's illuminate and Leshrac's split earth (although I must admit that I am the worst meat hooker ever TTT).

comment: The lack of demand for coordination and micro in DotA makes it largely a decision-making game, and emphasizes map-awareness.

Maybe more later. I have class.

 

[Erkie]

to Erkie - what in particular struck you as hypocritical? And what did I retract?

Hah, wow, you must've forgotten what you posted in that thread. We will summarize.

You came in around page five helping us to test bad ideas that wouldn't work on our map, and even giving us weapon icons.

At page seven you disagree with our idea of having three gangs, saying it'd be uneven and unfair, and I was about to adress this subject before the thread was closed: Players are not going to be allowed to leave the city without proper jobs or a reputation, like that in the original GTAs, no one can do anything until they're strong enough. But that's just my idea.

By page eight, you had a series of little outbursts that formed into giant flame-posts.

Here's an example.

You're making a pass-the-time-exploring-the-crazy-world-the-mapmaker-has-created map.

SIMS bladder energy hunger = Boring! Ooh, there's a nice car, I should chase it down and steal it...ah, no, shit, I gotta go to the bathroom. That's not GTA!

Ahaha. Rad wants to play LoaP and nobody wants to play with him. Rad, when you finish, can I take all your skins and models and make something that's fun? :+P Don't get discouraged...LoaP has an audience...I'm just not interested in playing it.

Wow, you don't like to experiment, we've established this. If you don't like our game, then it's a pretty ruthless thing to keep posting like you did.

The rest of this post was already handled pretty logically by Rad.

'Sargon' is the only person to agree with you, and he also accepted that map after uare had posted our chat log. And he even had a good point on it and delivered it well.

Do you guys even know why people leave LOAP? Everyone tries to establish military power, that's how it ends. No one wants to run around buying refrigerators, that's why there's so much to be done in this game, I've seen people play their whole way through an original GTA map and never run into their enemy unless they wanted to start something, and they were just destroying houses. This map has no peers, so stop giving us the AoS rundown.

Also, I love your metaphors? To get me to understand your point in a dramatic _Way_? I don't like it when someone does that to me, do you? Isn't it so condescending?

I apologize if I came off blunt, but you seem oblivious to a lot of things.

 

[Kenito]

I don't hate AoS maps, but I'm not too fond of it. I find that DOTA must burn...for its terrible community (die once and you never hear the end of it). Most AoS's I find a bit slow...if there's any AoS I actually enjoy slightly it's AoM.
---
CoD was okay. I find times when I'm working away at my TD and other maps and just feel like making custom heroes or a very detailed terrain...or custom items. AoS's bring forth new opportunity to bring in elements from nearly everything, but actually playing them can be tiring. Recipes add onto the replayability, though.

 

[Slaughter]

I'll continue with Erkie in a PM. (btw, if anyone is confused, Erkie is wrong when he says I came in at page five. I came in at the first page, post #7. He came in at page six, though, so maybe he overlooked all my posts before that.)

Also, I think it's bad form to quote what's adjacent to an emoticon without putting the emoticon too.

Booooo! :+P You're making a pass-the-time-exploring-the-crazy-world-the-mapmaker-has-created map.

Seems so much less harsh when you take it in context.

Whew! So much tension. Ok.

to Sud -

If you sit still for too long, chances are someone's going to destroy you.

I have been taught to spam right-clicks in DotA, to make my hero walk around erratically instead of standing still, and it improves things immensely. Since the early-game objective is to farm and xp-deny (kill your own creeps so that the enemy doesn't gain experience from them) you don't need to sit still, even if you're a ranged hero, and chip away at the creeps. You dance around trying to pressure the enemy heros or just avoid being harrassed out of lane, and when a creep gets red, try to kill it. If I played CoD I'd use the same tactics, and I would welcome game mechanics that make this an even more important part of the game.

to Kenito - I don't think I've played AoM. What does that stand for and what makes it special?

 

[Erkie]

Whew! So much tension. Ok.

Oh, sorry. I should've put an emoticon in the post.

My hostility has nothing to do with it. I'm still right, : D.

Waiting on the PM.

 

[phyrex1an]

to Kenito - I don't think I've played AoM. What does that stand for and what makes it special?

If it is the same AoM as I know: http://world-editor-tutorials.thehelper.net/maps.php?view=115
Or a page that is more up to date:
http://s10.invisionfree.com/Age_of_Myths/index.php?showtopic=12

Age of Myths, created by vile. Great map if you are tierd of the same old heros in other maps play this.

 

[mixmax2]

i like aos maps cus sometimes its just fun to have 1 hero fight other heros stead of having huge armies u need to micro and blah, i think the whole appeal in aos maps is that u dont have to use so much microing skills

 

[U are a noob]

i like aos maps cus sometimes its just fun to have 1 hero fight other heros stead of having huge armies u need to micro and blah, i think the whole appeal in aos maps is that u dont have to use so much microing skills

>i think the whole appeal in aos maps is that u dont have to use so much microing skills
umm i think different. Aos maps are all mirco. I know y DDRTIST hates AOS casue is does not do so well in aoses. the other day iwas playing with him and he bought the recpie with out the items i was cmon man. then he run in to a pack of creeps not even moving back. personally i would like to know y every one hates aoses.

section break(moving on to a new qoute)

Hah, wow, you must've forgotten what you posted in that thread. We will summarize.

You came in around page five helping us to test bad ideas that wouldn't work on our map, and even giving us weapon icons.

At page seven you disagree with our idea of having three gangs, saying it'd be uneven and unfair, and I was about to adress this subject before the thread was closed: Players are not going to be allowed to leave the city without proper jobs or a reputation, like that in the original GTAs, no one can do anything until they're strong enough. But that's just my idea.

By page eight, you had a series of little outbursts that formed into giant flame-posts.

Here's an example.





Wow, you don't like to experiment, we've established this. If you don't like our game, then it's a pretty ruthless thing to keep posting like you did.

The rest of this post was already handled pretty logically by Rad.

'Sargon' is the only person to agree with you, and he also accepted that map after uare had posted our chat log. And he even had a good point on it and delivered it well.

Do you guys even know why people leave LOAP? Everyone tries to establish military power, that's how it ends. No one wants to run around buying refrigerators, that's why there's so much to be done in this game, I've seen people play their whole way through an original GTA map and never run into their enemy unless they wanted to start something, and they were just destroying houses. This map has no peers, so stop giving us the AoS rundown.

Also, I love your metaphors? To get me to understand your point in a dramatic _Way_? I don't like it when someone does that to me, do you? Isn't it so condescending?

I apologize if I came off blunt, but you seem oblivious to a lot of things.

>Do you guys even know why people leave LOAP? Everyone tries to establish military power, that's how it ends. No one wants to run around buying refrigerators, that's why there's so much to be done in this game, I've seen people play their whole way through an original GTA map and never run into their enemy unless they wanted to start something, and they were just destroying houses. This map has no peers, so stop giving us the AoS rundown.
i happen to hate LOAP. why you might ask cuase thats not warcraft is about. like 3rd person shooters warcraft isnt supposed to have those or even things like base ball.personally i think the point of warcraft is war hense the word "war"craft. the reason y i join the map was to help make a mpa that is not like one of the 1000000000 types of LOAP where there is a god in the game

 

[BxBillyBones]

What are AOS maps?

 

[U are a noob]

What are AOS maps?

have you ever played DOTA COD TOB EOTA. They are aos type maps



Slaughter: umm you said you were gonna give me rep back for that one thing in the GTA thread about the quoteign thing i have been waiting for it.