Kingdom Hearts remake

[retupmoc258]

So, a quick overview of my project, I plan to create a sort of Warcraft III playable version of Kingdom Hearts (mixing between KH1 and KH2, and kind of KH:COM). For the most part this is a general layout of the game.

Three Characters:
There are three playable characters (meant to work as a team), Sora, Donald, Goofy (only fair). The characters will be different, and have unique abilities. Tweaking all of them is going to be a pain and it won't be done quickly, I'm sure.

Resources
Currently, the way I have it set up is with Gold as Munny and Wood as AP. It wouldn't really be hard to modify that because my abilities are activated by a "research" method. A certain thing is researched and then it activates the ability and resets the research counter. The research just costs 2 wood, for instance, if that's what it takes AP-wise.

Abilities:
I hope to make the game quite comparable to the original. Already I've created the Draw triggers and they work basically as I would hope (they just need to be expanded upon). I also plan to incorporate many of the other abilities, I am just not certain what should definitely be there and what is maybe inessential altogether.

I plan to have Sora be able to transform into his 4 forms, but the biggest limiting factor is just figuring out how to level those forms up. Triggers are fine, but . . . there need to be conditions. I am not entirely certain how to do things (for example, to level up Valor form you gain one point for every attack/damage you do). So the big question is how can I measure that? Does the event "Unit - General Unit Event" with "A unit is attacked" going to work? Is this triggered everytime a unit takes damage, or just when the attack command is issued? If so, levelling Valor will be fine.

But the next issue is the Master Form. I have no idea what on earth to do with drive orbs. I could just make a trigger-counter that measures "drive amount" and then the abilities trigger from it. But that's still quite messy, and I'm not sure how that would work, anyway. There needs to be some sort of "cost", it would seem, to activate the ability. Like, for instance, I can use the Metamorphosis ability (if I have this right) as the transformation abilities, and set the time that it takes place, it comes with a cancel feature built in, I can make it so the form has a larger cooldown time. But . . . I'm not entirely sure what to do with the cost. If I have a trigger-counter, can I cancel the ability before it takes place, or would it possibly be simpler just to make the Lumber resource as the drive Orbs? Either way, I suppose if I come up with Drive orbs in the first place, it won't be hard to level up the Master Form. I'm just not sure if creating them and creating a drive guage is entirely worth it. So I'd like some input on that.

I guess the other problem with the forms is removing the player(s) that are required to summon. If you're playing three players then this is kind of unfair to the one who is drawn out for whatever amount of time. I could set up something, like a mini-game, that allows them to fight while Sora is morphed. But I'm not entirely sure if I should do this or not. Suggestions are appreciated.

Heartless/Nobodies:
Since I am not skilled with modeling and don't want to try any sort of modeling at this point, I plan to use original figures inside of Warcraft III. This makes this part a lot simpler.

I'm trying to set up the stats to be reasonably fair to what they are. The biggest thing that's bugging me is the attack/defense system built into W3. With Starcraft it was no problem. Defense was straight defense, but defense in W3 is measured in a percentage scale. 1 defense can be something like 10% defense and 100 Defense is only like 85% :nuts: I like that feature, very much, but . . . it realy doesn't help me accomplish the game. I don't want to make trigger attack commands (kind of like what I've seen in Final Fantasy Forever c). So . . . I am wondering if there's some good idea to solve this problem as well.

Spells:
Currently I have made and finished triggers for the basic four spells: Cure, Blizzard, Thunder, and Fire. They have their three levels all set up and are basically all balanced to each other (except cure).

As for spell cost, I'm leaning more towards the way KH1 did it. I'm thinking of making the cost for the spell roughly 4:1. Cure will always cost 100 and every other spell will cost 25. The leveling system is such that every two levels for Sora produces 25 mana. So one extra spell casting can be done every 2 levels, and one cure every 8 levels. He starts out with 75 (3 spells) before he needs something like an ether or a save point to restore. I may modify these amounts to make it more like every 4 levels and 16 levels (as I don't recall being able to cast curaga very often without recharging on the titans or Sephiroth in KH1). But . . . the system is probably not reproduceable exactly, so something close. Any other suggestions are welcome.

I am unsure about some of the other spells, however. Things such as magnet. I could easily just use the taunt ability, except that it causes them all to attack Sora, in this case, when, in reality, I would want them just to be moved to that space and stay there. I could use triggers, I suppose, but . . . I'm not sure how it would work or how well. I can't think of any other spells right off my head, but those are the basics.

MP does NOT recharge automatically. I have not set any triggers yet that will recharge mana, but if I do, I'm leaning more towards the way KH1 did it.

Summons:
I'll stick maybe a little closer to KH2 on this one. I think I'll use the drive guage (if I create one) or just have a large shared cooldown for this. When something is summoned, Donald and Goofy leave and then the summoned unit appears. I am unsure which ones I definitely want and will create those first, but they will be useable and have a limited lifespan.

And if anyone knows how to create the timer on the figure so that it only lives so long, I'd like that. I'm familiar with Epic Final Fantasy and how you summon the unit and then they have the thing saying how much time they have left on the unit, and that would be ideal. If not, I can always create a timer and just triggers.

Items
I can have items be stacking and held by the unit (quick use) or I've thought about having the items triggered from a menu by dummy abilities (basically like how it is when you fight in battle). The items wouldn't have to be held (more room for holding armors and stuff), and they could be activated by the ability's trigger. I can also set it so that if they don't have any of that item that it will be darkened and say that there are none in the inventory, etc. Biggest thing I wonder is the actual trigger structure. Can I remove an item just sitting in the inventory (an actual spot on the map) and just have it used like that? If so, I think I could make it work. But, which is better?

Storyline:
It seems pointless to me to try and recreate the exact KH1-KH2 storyline, so instead I'm planning to place the story among the same places and do some similar things, perhaps, but have the story be different. I have no real details other than some of the places that have already been made and that I plan to make. I have Hollow Bastion, Olympus/Underworld, Alice's Maze, Pirates of the Caribbean, Pride Rock, and plan to create a shallow water place to represent Atlantis. That's about it.

Other:
I'm wondering if there is any good "dummy" ability that I can use that will just be used to activate triggers. Any will work, I just don't want things happening that shouldn't (such as having to target before it works, unless that's important)

And there are many other things I'm sure I haven't mentioned that I'm thinking about, and just random things that need improvement, or whatever. If you have suggestions, comments, or anything, feel free to post or pm me.

 

[Sirroelivan]

Channel is a good idea for a dummy spell

by the way, great idea, I was thinking of starting a similar project (almost completed Kingdom Hearts I) , but then multiplayer.

Are you planing to add the gummi ships to your map (and making them fully customizable would be hard, so maybe an item sytem?)

 

[retupmoc258]

Gummy Ship

I thought about doing the Gummy ship thing, but realized that it didn't seem too practical for the actual gameplay. Just seemed to be a project that you had to do and would seem kind of pointless (just like it does in the game). I could make a minigame of it later, perhaps, but . . . for now, I think I'll just pass on that.

 

[Miz]

Nice Idea
______________________________________________________________

Make sure to have this on there

Just for protection you might want to post this on the Quest Menu

 [B]Disclamer[/B]
The Units Names, Storylines, etc. of the Game do not belong to my behave. 
They belong to the game of Kingdom Hearts that is owned 
by Walt Disney Gaming Company and Square-Enix Gaming Company. 
The orignal owners are to give credits to the listed Items

Because
All Kingdom Hearts stuff belongs to
© Walt Disney Gaming Company
© Square-Enix
I doubt they would care but just incase

© = CopyRights

-Mizuio-ken

 

[Psiblade94122]

hmm for a def system that works like Sc and or KH use a modified version of hardened skin, and set the damage reduction for armor to 0 (under gameplay constants)

also to stick with the kingdom hearts stats system

you can make it so....

Str = Attack (under gameplay constants take out hpgain and hp regen)
Agi = Defense (take out incresed attack speed, and set armor redcution to 0)
Int = Magic (take out all values) if im not mistaken this determans how much
damage your magic dose in kh, will do wonders for trying to do stat
based skills <EX: cause (casting unit) to deal (2xint) damage to (target
of ability)
with the attack type of (magic) (normal).


as for your armor going up and down
instead of haveing them upp your def or attack directly make them increse your stats directly (like kingdom key (4got attack values) +X to str) (this is for the triggers and stat based things)

Trigger to upp def
Events - A hero levels up
A hero aquires an item
A hero drops an item
A hero buys and item
A hero pawns an item
Conditions -
Actions -
Set (Defense) for (triggering unit) to (agi of triggering unit)

and as for the heartless and nobody defense just make them start with the ability on the level... and if that fails, set the point value of the unit = the def
the reson for this is, i cant find any function that allows you to get the DEF actual def of the unit, and units do not have agi.

So for those units....
Events - A unit enters (playable area)
Conditions -
Actions -
Set level of ability (Defense) for (entering unit) to (point value of entering unit)


hopefully this will work for a def and attack system

oh yea... attack system.. simple

just set the base to -1 dice to 1 and sides to 1, then the attack w/o str would be 0, with this your attack will be the same with your str, and your hp can be incresed with hp tomes that are given when your hero levels up.

 

[retupmoc258]

Thank you PSiblade9412, those are definitely a lot of good ideas, thank you. However, I would like you to know that it is not possible to create a damage base that is negative. It is not a "real" number, so it can't be negative (yes I know how to turn on the "allow negative numbers in Object Editor" so I know it's not possible, and I even tried it). But it can be set to 0, which has the same effect, really.

 

[Sirroelivan]

To allow negative numbers, use shift+left click

 

[Sooda]

> A certain thing is researched and then it activates the ability and resets the research counter.

If you plan to un- and re-research (Aka upgrade) then you can' t undo the research anymore.
there is special ability in game "charge gold and lumber" you can use that. Don' t forget you have to change order IDs for that ability if you plan to have two or more abilities based off of same ability or their order IDs get mixed.
Anyway good luck with your project.

 

[Psiblade94122]

i would advise you to use food for ap instead of lumber, then make your hero consume the food as he uses more things that reqire ap (or use dummy units that use food) im saying this because with food, you can see your max ammount (your max ap) and how much your useing (your ap currently in use), and as for dummy abilities, charge gold and lumber (with no stats) would make a great dummy for skills that reqire no targeting (like heal and the new fire) but ill have to check if you can make it so it costs mana i dont have w3 running atm

 

[retupmoc258]

Yeah, the main problem I'm having with the abilities is sound. You wouldn't think that sound would be a big thing, but when you're trying to cast something like thunder and there's no thunder noise, it doesn't sound good. I could never get Channel to actually make the thunder noise, even if it had the same effects and the effect itself had the sound attached to it (which it does by default). Talk about annoying . . .

Using food for AP sounds like a pretty good idea. I hadn't thought about that. I just figured I should use a variable for AP. I've decided to use lumber for the Drive Orbs/Drive Counter. Since basically one small orb measured up to 1% of the drive guage, and the larger ones to 3%, I figure that would be simple and could be visible and easy to see and everything.

As for the "Charge Gold and Lumber" ability, Yes, it can have a mana cost. I'll look in to using that. And perhaps it will actually have sound (crossing fingers) if I attach the effects. Particularly with fire is where that would be most useful. But I'll stick with thunder as it is, I'm thinking I might keep blizzard like it is as well (they're empty and don't do anything, but the targetting and sound effects still take place). So I'll see if I can get fire to work like I want and the Cure.

Thanks for more ideas. So far progress is coming along pretty well. I'm focusing on the triggers, abilities, units, settings, etc., for now. As for the map, it's in progress as well. The problem with using this system is the limitation on space. Obviously because every part of the map is accessable for viewing at the same time in W3 it means that the total space is incredibly limited compared to things like Kingdom Hearts where Hollow Bastion could fill up like half of an Epic map by itself. Anyway, despite the limitations (really, thinking about it there is no point in making a KH clone anyway, considering the fact that it exists across the room and wants to be played anyway, lol) I am going to continue. It gives me something to do, and because of the simpleness of the gameplay, I'm thinking it could be expanded in some ways later anyway (I've always liked games that basically never ended but still have some sort of value, especially if you can carry forward your old unit, lol).

So that's it for now. Guess it's back to figuring out how to make the food system work. I'm thinking, if possible, I'll just make the hero's, like Sora, food production increase, and then when an ability changes things what it does is increase the food cost of the hero. They basically balance each other out, and triggers can check those things to make sure the limits aren't broken. We'll have to see, though.

As for using the abilities, I've got it worked out. For things like the AP and stuff I have it so what you're doing is buying an item (so far) and the first time it levels up a research ability (basically what this does is make it so if you can see the ability, you still can't use it because it will say "Requires: Cure Orb" or whatever it is. That's the name of the research (just to make it say that specifically). After that, it levels the ability for successive orbs. It works, and it might save me some work with other things (such as having to make 14 different spellbooks just to have every possible combination of spells ) But I'm going to see about the AP thing. I guess maybe I'll have it make a blank unit so it shows how much AP it costs using the icon (food icon) and then remove the unit and make adjustments in some form. But we'll see how it actually changes.

Thanks everyone for the help.

 

[Psiblade94122]

if your useing dummy abilities, you can use the "play sound at point" function, and make that play at the target point (dotn 4get to get rid of leakes and such)

the drive, is this multiplayer (3 players for sora donald and goofy) or is it just one (you controle all 3) cuz if its multiplayer then the drive will kinda make everyone but sora kinda useless (heck, they ARE useless in the game! donald and goofys always knocked out and im dogeing like crazy)

If its not multiplayer, you can always display stuff like...
Drive Meter llllllllllllllllllllllll---------------- (X%)
Mp Charge. llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll----------- (X%)
and so on, in a multi board

i ahve a question, how are you going to get "tech" point? its really hard to detect a "counter" (unless you do soem crazy code, <i have one in mind but it reqires tons of triggers.. ill refer to this later>)

in kingdom hearts, most abilities are aquired via leveling and boss leveling, if your going to "remake" kh you can use a tech tree reqirement and when you lv up to the level that yo uget it in the real game, you can give the player that dummy unit so its avalible

 

[retupmoc258]

I've looked at the play sound. I'm not trying to use any custom sounds (and that's the only kind it will allow you to play with the triggers). So if you can figure out how to do it otherwise . . . yeah, that's sunk. See, the odd thing about things like the flame strike spell, if you look at it, there is no sound in the ability. You look at all of its buffs/effects and none of them have sounds either. But yet when you cast it, magically there is. I think someone wasn't thinking when they designed some parts of W3. Oh well, it wasn't designed to create whole games out of it.

Yeah, I'm thinking now that maybe I'll give Donald and Goofy their own drives. That would be interesting. It is meant to be a multiplayer game, so I'm hoping to make the other units at least somewhat more fair and comparable (make it worth playing as someone other than Sora).

Okay, I'm hoping this answers the question with the "tech" points. For instance, I have a spellbook with 4 spells in it: Blizzard, Fire, Thunder, and Cure. The techtree requirement for each one is such that they say you need a certain item. I'll use cure for my example. On cure the tech you have to research for it is called "Cure Orb". This makes it so that it says "Requires: Cure Orb" in order to use the ability. Works perfectly. As soon as you get a cure orb, the research is set to 1 and you can use the ability. For each successive cure orb you get, it increases the level of the cure ability, making it Cura, and then Curaga. I think that's your question. It just means I don't have to make 14 different spellbooks with different combinations of the spells.

And yes, I was going to use some of those things to mimic the levelling system.

And now for news, I have converted the AP over to food. I found triggers that would increase the food cap and then just used an empty/blank model and a unit to represent the ability. You "train" the unit and then it activates the ability, and the unit requires food, so it's impossible to get above the food limit (in theory). If you produce more than you can it removes one (fixes the food spent issue). Since the unit has no model, no collision size, or anything, it can't be seen (I can't even select one if I try and click and drag over the area I know has them) and can be "walked through". They're entirely invisible, but exist.

 

[Psiblade94122]

oh weps... wow i think i blanked out when typeing my last msg >.<

what i ment with tech points are, the exp points you gain via countering an opponents attack, not magic tech levels (IE: cure -> cura -> curga -> curja)