Health Doctors demand the removal of anti-vaccine ad from Times Square.

[tom_mai78101]

The American Academy of Pediatrics has urged CBS Outdoor to take down the advertisement funded by anti-vaccine groups.

For 17 days, every hour for 15 seconds, a controversial message is being sold to the American public via a CBS billboard in Times Square, New York. A photograph of a mother cradling her naked baby is accompanied by the words: "Vaccines: Know the risks." This image is faded out, and replaced by the Statue of Liberty and "Vaccination. Your Health. Your Family. Your Choice."

The advert is paid for and endorsed by the non-profit National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) and Mercola.com (self-proclaimed World's Number 1 Natural Health Website), and will be shown until 28 April.

CBS Outdoor has faced a massive backlash for its choice of clientele: both NVIC and Mercola are viewed by many as anti-vaccine propagandists.

The NVIC publishes a disclaimer on almost every article, assuring readers that it is not anti-vaccination – despite the fact its spokesperson, Playboy model Jenny McCarthy, has publicly described vaccinations as "a product that's shit".

Doctors demand the removal of anti-vaccine ad from Times Square | Mary Platts

Mary Platts: The American Academy of Pediatrics has urged CBS Outdoor to take down the advertisement funded by anti-vaccine groups

www.theguardian.com

 

[undeadorcjerk]

If I were CBS, here's how I would look at it, and this is most likely going to happen.

On one hand I have a group of people who are angry about this ad being displayed on my billboard and are demanding that I remove it. On the other hand I have the group that is paying me to use my billboard to show their advertisement.... Now I really don't care about the message as long as it's not adult related material... and did I mention that this second group is paying me?

I personally think that everyone has free speech in America and that any group should be able to post anything appropriate that they would like. Fuck you doctors for complaining about an ad.

 

[Slapshot136]

I think its good that they are showing the ad - let people do more thinking/research on their own and come to their own conclusions - it's their money and their health, pharmaceutical companies do make money and quite a lot, so it would be natural for them to promote their products

that aside, I don't quite see how a playboy model as a spokesperson gives them too much credibility..

 

[perkeyone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6AJUWFXrBI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9P80I96X4c

undeadorcjerk
it would be kinda like if cigarette companies made advertisements claiming that smoking is good for your health despite all the contrary evidence.
i dont think free speech covers that.

slapshot136
i dont think that such an ad would cause most people to think and research, but instead cause them to panic and become paranoid.
misinformation is probably never a good thing.

 

[Dan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6AJUWFXrBI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9P80I96X4c

undeadorcjerk
it would be kinda like if cigarette companies made advertisements claiming that smoking is good for your health despite all the contrary evidence.
i dont think free speech covers that.

slapshot136
i dont think that such an ad would cause most people to think and research, but instead cause them to panic and become paranoid.
misinformation is probably never a good thing.

The word you're looking for is "disinformation" also, if there is even one reason not to get a specific vaccine then it is not a flat out lie... besides all they are saying is "know the risks" lol.

freedom of speech all the way.

 

[Slapshot136]

i dont think that such an ad would cause most people to think and research, but instead cause them to panic and become paranoid.
misinformation is probably never a good thing.

the people who will panic/become paranoid are the ones who will panic/become paranoid without even seeing the ad anyways.. and worst case scenario then: those who panic don't get vaccines, get illnesses, and then die out - or the reverse, those who get vaccines get autism, die out, and humanity evolves - see how it's a win-win as long as everyone doesn't do the same thing?

besides that, I find it hard to believe that anything containing mercury can be considered "safe", regardless of how much research they do, mercury is a poison, and less poison in your body = better - now if they say that the benefits out-weigh the risks, fine, but there is still a risk, thus this is not mis/disinformation

 

[FireCat]

:thdown:
Well, letting health care consumers know that they have a choice?
Holy crap, that's dangerous!

 

[undeadorcjerk]

@perkeyone
Its nothing like that at all. The current ad suggests people to think about and research their choices. Your example is a flat out lie.

 

[perkeyone]

undeadorcjerk,
this is not a public service announcement to encourage careful consideration before electing to vaccinate a child... it is an advertisement meant only to attract attention to anti-vaccine propaganda websites with the intention of garnering support and to sell alternative medicine such as homeopathic remedies (placebos). the only scientific paper to suggest that vaccines pose health risks has been completely discredited and was conducted dishonestly and illegally. perhaps this will be a more accurate example... making an advertisement saying "apple juice... know the risks" despite the absence of evidence suggesting that apple juice causes any disease. then trying to sell you water and telling you it has all the nutrition and flavor of apple juice but is safe.

slapshot136,
its not the people who panic who i am concerned about, it is their children. the children dont have a say in the issue... it isnt right to let their health hinge on the naivety of their parents and someone's ability to skew facts. in the videos i linked the subject of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity is discussed. basically, when the majority of the members of a population are immune to a disease, it becomes more difficult for the disease to be transmitted to the non-immune members, causing it to become so rare that effectively everyone is immune and in extreme cases the disease can die out. (eg. small pox) if they successfully convince people to not vaccinate, they weaken the species as a whole. your comment seems to suggest that you dont see a problem with spreading misinformation because at worst it will kill off the weak or stupid population and help humans evolve. i apologize if i have misinterpreted, but that is a gross perversion of the concept of evolution.

i encourage both of you to watch the videos i linked in my previous post if you have not already.
also have a look at this wiki article describing what happens in situations like this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_controversy#Events_following_reductions_in_vaccination

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

On one hand I have a group of people who are angry about this ad being displayed on my billboard and are demanding that I remove it. On the other hand I have the group that is paying me to use my billboard to show their advertisement.... Now I really don't care about the message as long as it's not adult related material... and did I mention that this second group is paying me?

And that people, is what is wrong with market economies.

 

[perkeyone]

And that people, is what is wrong with market economies.

itd be better show the adult stuff

 

[Slapshot136]

your comment seems to suggest that you dont see a problem with spreading misinformation

no, I am against the spreading of misinformation, however the fact is that vaccines contained mercury, which is a poison and causes problems - perhaps I should use your example and say that this apple juice used to be created from whole apples, in which the seeds were ground up and mixed with the rest of the product before being filtered out, and the cyanide from the apple seeds is in the apple juice, however it's apple juice - it can't be bad for you, even if it has cyanide in it

 

[perkeyone]

actually, the mercury compound you are referring to, thiomersal, has been, for the most part, phased out of use since 2001, despite the fact that numerous studies found no evidence of toxicity and no causal relationship with autism.

this was discussed in the videos which i posted. i highly recommend watching them.

also i would like to point out...

A central concept of toxicology is that effects are dose-dependent; even water can lead to water intoxication when taken in large enough doses, whereas for even a very toxic substance such as snake venom there is a dose below which there is no detectable toxic effect.

 

[Dan]

STOP SAYING MISINFORMATION. nothing is being accidentally miss-said here. some people believe that there are risks with taking vaccines. There are studies saying that there are. The cervical cancer vaccine for example has risks involved and your doctor WILL mention them before giving them to you. The H1N1 vaccination also has risks. I don't know how you can say that there was only one study on the dangers of vaccinations and that it was proven wrong... I believe that would be the definition of disinformation right there. Or misinformation if you really didn't know. There is no misinformation here and your claim that there is DISinformation (ie: lies) is wrong.

I am COMPLETELY PRO vaccinations, yet I think you have a very weak argument.

BTW, I would not care AT ALL if there were a million billboards saying "Apple Juice: know the risks". You could choke on it... that's a risk. Not my money paying for it to be put on a billboard. Doesn't harm anyone directly... Thus there is no legal reason why this should be taken down...

 

[Slapshot136]

also i would like to point out...

Thiomersal is very toxic by inhalation, ingestion, and in contact with skin (EC hazard symbol T+), with a danger of cumulative effects

- the "danger of cumulative effects" is the problem - if you only needed 1 shot, then sure you could say the amount of poison in that shot is minimal, but considering that it stays in your system and you get lots of them, the effects add up

also, when did I ever say that they still do? I said that they used to, nowadays they use other chemicals that are less researched and could do more damage

and to add to what Dan said, what exactly is this "misinformation" that was present? what specific statement was false?

 

[perkeyone]

dan
youre right, i was using the wrong word, thanks.
honestly i wasnt sure if that was a real word.
it is exactly the connotation i intended to convey

the cervical cancer vaccine you mentioned is actually an hpv vaccine which reduces risk of cervical cancer. it only protects against 4 strains of hpv. (there are at least 120 strains, at least 12 of which are high risk) as for the risks...http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/HPV/gardasil.html out of 33 million doses distributed, there were 18,354 (0.05%) reports of adverse reaction. 92% of those reports were were non-serious (not life-threatening and temporary) the remaining 8% (0.004% of all cases) were considered serious. these reports of serious adverse reactions included...

• a neurological disorder (Guillain-Barré Syndrome)

  There has been no indication that Gardasil increases the rate of GBS in girls and women above the rate expected in the general population, whether or not they were vaccinated.

• blood clots

  Most of these people had a risk of getting blood clots, such as taking oral contraceptives (the birth control pill), smoking, obesity, and other risk factors.

• and death

  In the 32 reports confirmed, there was no unusual pattern or clustering to the deaths that would suggest that they were caused by the vaccine and some reports indicated a cause of death unrelated to vaccination.

in otherwords, there is no epidemiological evidence to suggest that the vaccines caused these serious adverse reactions.

as for the h1n1 vaccine

As of 19 November 2009, the World Health Organization (WHO) said that 65 million doses of vaccine had been administered and that it had a similar safety profile to the seasonal flu vaccine, with no significant differences in the adverse events produced by the different types of vaccine. There has been one report of an adverse event per 10,000 doses of vaccine, with only five percent of these adverse events being serious, an overall rate of serious events of one in 200,000 doses.

a similar conclusion can be made.



Slapshot136
the amount of mercury found in vaccines that still use thiomersal is roughly equal to the amount typically found in a tuna sandwich.
your first mention of mercury was present tense

anything containing mercury

i do acknowledge that your subsequent mentions were made in the past tense

vaccines contained mercury,

the specific disinformation that anti-vaccine groups spread

• claims that mmr vaccine causes autism
• claims that vaccines contain chemicals such as antifreeze and ether
• claims that vaccine contain aborted fetus cells.
• claims that vaccines flatly do not work

also i would like to reiterate that this ad is being paid for by a group of people selling alternative health products.
it is not intended to encourage careful research, it is intended to scare customers away from modern medicine and towards scam remedies and placebo medicine.

 

[Slapshot136]

your first mention of mercury was present tense
>> which was about mercury in general, not specifically in vaccines

the specific disinformation that anti-vaccine groups spread

• claims that mmr vaccine causes autism
• claims that vaccines contain chemicals such as antifreeze and ether
• claims that vaccine contain aborted fetus cells.
• claims that vaccines flatly do not work

>> none of which are mentioned in the advertisement

also i would like to reiterate that this ad is being paid for by a group of people selling alternative health products.
>> and the ones opposed to it are the ones who sell them, i.e. they are financially motivated as well


it is not intended to encourage careful research, it is intended to scare customers away from modern medicine and towards scam remedies and placebo medicine.

>> maybe I should just go with people are responsible for researching on their own, except in the case of children, in which case the parents are responsible - there are also ads for alcohol, should those be taken down as well? what about video games/movies? or are those "beneficial"?

 

[FireCat]

the specific disinformation that anti-vaccine groups spread

• claims that vaccine contain aborted fetus cells.

Is that

VARIVAX

Varicella Virus Vaccine Live. Merck & Company, 1-800-672-6372. Produced using sucrose, phosphate, glutamate, and processed gelatin. Medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue).

MMR

Measles Mumps Rubella Live Virus Vaccination. Merck & Company, 1-800-672-6372. Produced using sorbitol, neomycin, and hydrolyzed gelatin. Mediums: M & M -- chick embryo. Rubella -- human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

MERUVAX II

Rubella Virus Vaccine Live. Merck & Company, 1-800-672-6372. Produced using neomycin, sorbitol, and hydrolyzed gelatin. Medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

 

[perkeyone]

>> maybe I should just go with people are responsible for researching on their own, except in the case of children, in which case the parents are responsible - there are also ads for alcohol, should those be taken down as well? what about video games/movies? or are those "beneficial"?

slapshot136
your alcohol ads example doesnt exactly mesh with the anti-vaccine ads.
one is promoting something bad, the other is demoting something good.

the negative health implications of alcohol are well documented and fairly well known
just as the positive health implications are for vaccinations.
[del]so in order for your analogy to work, someone would have to make[/del]
what if someone, perhaps a brewery, payed for an ad which encouraged people to research the benefits of alcohol?

this ad they want to show is akin to having ads like...
"washing your hands... know the risks..."
"brushing your teeth... know the risks..."
"taking a shower... know the risks..."
they are demoting an extremely safe, thoroughly research medical practice with huge benefits to public health... using information which has no sound epidemiological evidence to support it... solely for the purpose of garnering attention to the products that they sell... which, in turn, have no sound epidemiological supporting evidence.



firecat

After the antigen is generated, it is isolated from the cells used to generate it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vaccine_ingredients
the human diploid cells are merely a medium for the production of the vaccine.
i wish i could find the article i was looking at earlier but i cant.
the basic message of the article was that the fetal tissues used were from therapeutically preformed abortions. the article also indicated that no further abortions would be necessary to continue the production of the vaccines. if i find the article ill post it as soon as i can.

 

[Dan]

slapshot136
the negative health implications of alcohol are well documented and fairly well known
just as the positive health implications are for vaccinations.
so in order for your analogy to work, someone would have to make an ad which encouraged people to research the benefits of alcohol.

this ad they they want to show is akin to having ads like...
"washing your hands... know the risks..."
"brushing your teeth... know the risks..."
"taking a shower... know the risks..."
they are demoting an extremely safe, thoroughly research medical practice with huge benefits to public health... using information which has no sound epidemiological evidence to support it... solely for the purpose of garnering attention to the products that they sell... which, in turn, have no sound epidemiological supporting evidence.

Why couldn't you have lead your agreement with this? This is a good statement of why it is immoral to have the ad up.

The next part of the argument is about the legality of it though. Unfortunately for your side of the argument, there is nothing wrong with what they did. Though, with some support it could be taken down if one of the parties involved realized that it was making enough people upset.