Minigame Pudge Wars Advanced

BlackRose

Forum User
Hm. Yeah. I kind of did more harm than good in this version. I'm going to be doing more polishing in the next updates, no new stuff. I'm also intending Phantom Lance to be more "balanced". - Shrugs -

What about AI bots to replace leaver? Although all they would do is die O_O. Unsure...

Thanks for the feedback =3

P.S.: I'm still working on this, just a bit busy.
 

BlackRose

Forum User
Back in action. v2.01 under way. No new stuff except for the reimplementation of manual mode selection (or chatting the mode in, ex: -km200nt). Also, the idea of new terrain is scratched, I don't think anyone really cared that much about it.

Major stuff changed anyways was:
  • Meat Hook recoded, I hope it's now less laggier.
  • Phantom Lancer nerfed. Damage per 'split' hook is now 50%, achieving overall 150% damage. Cooldown is shared on all Mini-Pudges.
 

Mr_LiSa

New Member
BlackRose please give me email (have replay witth bug)
P.S. please add in map Observers an Refferis - on championships usually need neutral host but now its imbossible :confused:
 

BlackRose

Forum User
BlackRose please give me email (have replay witth bug)
P.S. please add in map Observers an Refferis - on championships usually need neutral host but now its imbossible :confused:
Siraraz@hotmail.com ~ It's even on the loading screen!

Also, I dunno if it's possible to add an observer slot without making it 5v6. Adding two would make it 5v5. Tossrock already implemented an -observer command (which still needs polishing) though.
 

BlackRose

Forum User
ALMOST HERE. I've nearly done updating the stuffz.

Anyways, I have an important question:

What is your opinion on the radius upgrade for Meat Hook?

Currently, every upgrade increments radius by 15. After your 25th upgrade, your radius will be 475 (100 base + [25 x 15]).

100 range radius:

475 range radius:

There are several problems that the radius upgrades have:

Firstly, you can see with a 475 range radius that the Meat Hook head's size is way out of proportion to it's hittable area. The pink Pudge is clearly out of the hook's head way, but after that screenshot the unit gets hooked anyways.

Secondly, besides being visually inaccurate, it's rather imbalanced I'd say. How is it imbalanced? You don't even need to try to hook enemy units, blind hooking into the other side of the map will work. The map is smaller than 32x32.

Thirdly, you can accidentally hook allied units. The Meat Hook might accidentally grab an allied unit instead of an enemy due to it's large radius range. This problem occurs too often and is quite an inconvenience.

I am looking for a suitable approach to this problem. Scaling the hook head to match the radius would be absurd as it would take up too much space on the screen. Imagine having about 6 hooks of that size on your screen?!

I thought about reducing the upgrade value to half of what it is, so it'd be 7.5 per upgrade. The maximum hook radius would then become 287.5. Another approach could be to limit the amount of radius upgrades you can have, instead of 25, it'd be 15.

Do note that the method the hooks search a target is not exactly circular. As can be seen when you launch Meat Hook with a large radius, units behind you that are in range won't be hit. The target searching formula checks if the target is within the quadrant closest to the hook travel angle. I've noticed that the hook will sometimes go through targets with this method, compared to circular enumeration.

Here's the function used specifically. 'coz I dunno T__T. I noobz at life/maths/coding.

Is this diagram perhaps a good representation of how it currently works? Blerk.


Discuss. Is the radius a problem or not?
 

esb

Because none of us are as cruel as all of us.
If you want to keep the radius, and make it visually appealing, Why not add more hooks? I'll try to draw something quickly:

Or what exactly are you asking/looking for?
 

BlackRose

Forum User
I'd imagine glaives rotating around the central one linked with chains would also look messy. The problem lies with the bigger radius values, if I added that for only large values, it would be inconsistent. It should be that all Meat Hooks have the same head.

I'm not sure how'd I go about doing it anyways without making it look like a wind mill, you know, the "bend" in the glaive. I'm not really at discovering a solution stage yet, I'm just trying to get discussion on the matter going on.
 

Zack1996

Working on a Map
The thing about radius upgrades is each upgrade is more effective than the last.

Let's look at 0 upgrades:
100 * 100 * pi = 10000pi
At one upgrade:
115 * 115 * pi = 13225pi (+3225)
2 upgrades:
130 * 130 * pi = 16900pi (+3675)

As you can see, the area of the circle does not increase linearly, thus making higher upgrades ridiculously effective.

Frankly, I hate the radius upgrade, it makes the game really unfun when someone has a massive hook with loads of damage. The radius upgrade is also the only one that synergises poorly with items.

My suggestion would be to simply have an item possess an ability that increases hook radius, as opposed to having a hook radius upgrade. A possibility could be to include something like this:
Spectral Blade- Creates a ghostly extension around your meathook, increasing its radius by 25 (or something)
Level 5 Active (Haunt)- Gives the player vision of all enemies for x seconds (and maybe some debuff for all enemies, dunno)
Meh, something like that :p
 

BlackRose

Forum User
As you can see, the area of the circle does not increase linearly, thus making higher upgrades ridiculously effective.
You are right.

Frankly, I hate the radius upgrade, it makes the game really unfun when someone has a massive hook with loads of damage. The radius upgrade is also the only one that synergises poorly with items.
I also dislike the radius upgrade, mixed with high speed and the Meat Hook has a high chance of hitting a target. Which as you said, dulls the game as effort isn't required anymore. The fun was where you had to continuously hook until a target was hit, and then an ally or something would try headshot and enemies would try hook back, all hooks in a targeted area would cause chaos, which is why it was fun.

My suggestion would be to simply have an item possess an ability that increases hook radius, as opposed to having a hook radius upgrade.
Removing the radius upgrade would be a huge gamebreaking move, I'm not sure if people would be pleased with it removed. I don't think the concept is entirely broken, just that it could have some improvements. Added to this is that I don't plan to add any more items anytime soon. One item inventory for extra radius does seem a bit silly anyways :p

What are your thoughts on capping the maximum radius upgrades available or reducing the radius increase per level?

Thanks for your comments anyways ^^

(Thinking about this, could the same be said about the speed upgrade? Perhaps I should just add a "noupgrade" game modifier like there is "nopowerup".)
 

Mr_LiSa

New Member
+++ need fix radius upgrade
BlackRose please add in map HCL option for Ghost bots automode:)
Its real to return to the old idea - when you take a rune on you shine on its icon ,,,
 

Mr_LiSa

New Member
ah and please add in map the Observers and Refferies very help if need neutral host but now this option in map off (
 

Mr_LiSa

New Member
hm ..
yeah can add in map mode - without items and upgrades(and books ...) ?
mode for pros on head and deny =)
 

BlackRose

Forum User
+++ need fix radius upgrade
BlackRose please add in map HCL option for Ghost bots automode:)
Its real to return to the old idea - when you take a rune on you shine on its icon ,,,
I decided to leave Radius as is :) Also, do you mean the buff status? I'm pretty sure it's already there :p I didn't modify it o.o

ah and please add in map the Observers and Refferies very help if need neutral host but now this option in map off (
There are a few different approaches to this:
  1. Reduce the game to 5v5, and leave two slots for observers and referees.
  2. Have four forces.
    East
    East Observer

    West
    West Observer

    If some "Observer Mode" was enabled, the players in the East and West Observer slots would be observers instead. However, they would still count as a player, not an actual referee / observer.
  3. Keep it as current with the -observer command, players can request to become an observer any time, so at the start, the host could just make himself become observer via this command.

The problem with 2 and 3 is that they won't be Observers / Referees as the Warcraft III engine designed. Number 3 is already inplace, is that type okay? Where the host can just become observer instead rather than setting his "team" to observer in the lobby....

hm ..
yeah can add in map mode - without items and upgrades(and books ...) ?
mode for pros on head and deny =)
[del]Funny that, as I was actually thinking of doing something of the sort.[/del] I have now added that game modifier: Hook Only mode. The Items and Upgrades shop is broken, and so are your hook upgrades!
 

BlackRose

Forum User
BlackRose please add in map HCL option for Ghost bots automode
please add and this idea =) :thup:
I'm sorry, but I actually have no idea what you are actually asking for. I'm not familiar with GHost bots, and the like. Could you please explain a bit more?

This project is still alive? :eek:
Yes it is. Although I'll probably begin working on this less once my holidays are over (next week :().
 
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