Crime Occupy!

[Dan]

I know the police officers are trying to maintain order in there, but why do it with pepper spray? With lots of pepper spray. The protesters were also peaceful.

I think the alternative is to remove them by pure force. It is a lot easier to prod someone off the path after they have pepper spray in their eyes. Some of them moved by themselves. Alternatives are worse, aren't they? The police are armed with pretty harmless stuff. Pepper spray hurts like a b@%!# but it stops hurting after a while.

 

[Vellu]

I think the alternative is to remove them by pure force. It is a lot easier to prod someone off the path after they have pepper spray in their eyes. Some of them moved by themselves. Alternatives are worse, aren't they? The police are armed with pretty harmless stuff. Pepper spray hurts like a b@%!# but it stops hurting after a while.

You're right, but what if someone gets an allergic reaction from that stuff and dies. I don't know if they've tested how safe the spray is.

 

[Dan]

You're right, but what if someone gets an allergic reaction from that stuff and dies. I don't know if they've tested how safe the spray is.

Hmmm... Idk. I would assume that when told that you were about to be sprayed by pepper spray if you don't move and you stay... but... I guess...

I've never seen the orange laser spray though. Very bright! glow in the dark?

Honestly I do feel for the protesters. When there are a lot of people around it gives you balls that you might not normally have. In your right mind you probably wouldn't sit on the ground in protest if you were alone... once a few others are doing it it gives a sense of power I assume. It's probably easy to feel very oppressed in that situation.

 

[FireCat]

But you have to understand that letting so many people stay in parks increases the crime-rate.

Sure the crime rate would increase.
But more people there are, the harder it is for greedy corporations etc.. to ignore them.
Well, they will at least attempt to look at theirs point of view of a few hundred thousand people.

Anyways, these people getting 'abused' probably *do* deserve it..

I do NOT support police force "breaking up protests that are not violent"
But sure they should let people got to theirs jobs who do have a job!

 

[camelCase]

The thing is, it was originally supposed to be a peaceful demonstration about some economic unfairness (which seems a lot like a bid for communism).
It then became an all-out brainless rage-fest after some protesters were arrested/handled for breaking the law.

Most of these people don't even know what they want from this.

That few hundred-thousand people don't *deserve* all that money.
I'm not super-rich and I *do* want lots of money but I have to accept the fact that these people did more to get their money than I did.

I don't support police violence either.
I've been on the receiving end a few times myself (but I did kinda' deserve it for being stupid).
The point is, these people know what they're getting themselves into but choose to do it anyway.

They know that they'll get pepper-sprayed, flash-banged, arrested, maced, etc.
So, if they do decide to do all that crazy-stuff, they better be prepared for pain.

There are better ways to get the attention of "greedy corporations" than mindless raging on the streets.
What they're doing is endangering themselves without a clear goal in mind.

They're a danger to themselves.
They should, like, use their collective brainpower to think up of something better =/

 

[seph ir oth]

Another video:

Spoiler

[youtube]nQw7wSGrfYk[/youtube]

Also, an interesting read may be found here asking for the school's chancellor's resignation by an english prof who organized the peaceful protest.

While I do not fully agree with the idea of getting her to resign, I definitely think it should be done to make it look like the school is doing SOMETHING for the students. Otherwise, it's gonna look bad for the school itself.

EDIT: About the video: the people were basically non-provoking and weren't really warned about getting beat at all (no "if you do not move, we will use force" warning). I can only assume the pepper spraying was the same way.

 

[YourFace]

Are they spraying formaldehyde in picture 1?

 

[sqrage]

>>I'm not super-rich and I *do* want lots of money but I have to accept the fact that these people did more to get their money than I did.

How is siting at a desk and vacationing 8 months a year more work than the minimum wage paying physical labor that the workingand lower class do? Not to mention, you don't have to be filthy rich. Only 6% of Americans males make over $100,000 annually. $100,000 isn't even a lot by today's standards.

 

[camelCase]

They worked to get up there in the first place, did they not?

Or they're riding on their parent's/grandparent's past work.
Which is still well-deserved.

I still find it amazing that these OWS protesters have managed to do a lot of stuff not related to the problem they want to solve.
Like feeding themselves, hooking up bikes to generate electricity when use of gas was not allowed, raising half-a-million in donations, becoming tax-exempt, survive the weather outside, cleaning Zuccotti Park because it was too unsanitary, reusing water used for dishwashing on plants, etc.

When do they put their collective gray-matter to the task at hand?

 

[sqrage]

How is protest not a form of getting what you want done (or at least trying)? That's how the civil rights movement begun, vietnam ended, etc.

 

[camelCase]

It's protest without a particular aim in mind.
They're unhappy with a lot of things.

Any demands?
Sure, "End 'it'"

I was saying they should just decide on what exactly they want from this ><

 

[Dan]

Another video:

Spoiler

[youtube]nQw7wSGrfYk[/youtube]

Also, an interesting read may be found here asking for the school's chancellor's resignation by an english prof who organized the peaceful protest.

While I do not fully agree with the idea of getting her to resign, I definitely think it should be done to make it look like the school is doing SOMETHING for the students. Otherwise, it's gonna look bad for the school itself.

EDIT: About the video: the people were basically non-provoking and weren't really warned about getting beat at all (no "if you do not move, we will use force" warning). I can only assume the pepper spraying was the same way.

I agree this SEEMS a bit much but again what you said about "non-provoking" and without warning is not necessarily true. The fact that the clip itself showed nothing doesn't mean that they weren't standing there for 10-20-30 minutes telling them to move. The police didn't just mystically appear there out of thin air... they all gathered over the course of what I can only imagine was a while for so many cops to arrive. The protesters knew that they were going to be dispersed long before they started getting pushed back with force.

Idk they could probably just have taken them one by one and slowly arrested them but honestly... what they did seemed to work and they didn't really hurt anyone more than getting in a fight with some kid at school... something I'm sure these people have done many a time in the past.

Idk if I saw someone get all up in another guy's face or stand in front of a door or something and then the other guy punch his lights out, I probably wouldn't think twice. The guy would have been asking for it. The same kind of thinking applies here imo. They are doing something that is inappropriate or in an inappropriate way and the police come along to handle it. I agree it sometimes seems pretty subtle and a bit over the top but It's hardly as bad as some people make it out to be.

 

[UndeadDragon]

Or they're riding on their parent's/grandparent's past work.
Which is still well-deserved.

I wouldn't say that people who are rich like this are deserving of it. They are fortunate, but they don't deserve that sort of money unless they work for it. I do have nothing against corporations that have worked their way up from nothing. I think people just get jealous that they are not the ones who had these ideas and who made their fortune from them.

 

[sqrage]

I wouldn't say that people who are rich like this are deserving of it. They are fortunate, but they don't deserve that sort of money unless they work for it. I do have nothing against corporations that have worked their way up from nothing. I think people just get jealous that they are not the ones who had these ideas and who made their fortune from them.

I don't think they're jealous, I think they're upset with the fact that a highschool graduate father of four could support his family while his wife remains a stay at home mother raising the children; just 30 years ago. Now this situation would probably require both parents to work and at least one of the kids to help pay for their education. Not to mention, I don't think they're mostly pissed about the 1%'s wealth but rather that they have more influence on this so called "democracy" than the rest of the 99% of the population.

 

[UndeadDragon]

I don't think they're jealous, I think they're upset with the fact that a highschool graduate father of four could support his family while his wife remains a stay at home mother raising the children; just 30 years ago. Now this situation would probably require both parents to work and at least one of the kids to help pay for their education. Not to mention, I don't think they're mostly pissed about the 1%'s wealth but rather that they have more influence on this so called "democracy" than the rest of the 99% of the population.

Ok, those are some fair points which I didn't think of. The economy is in hard times and I do think that the governments of the world favour the wealthy over the average person. For example, the huge bank bailouts which happened, yet in England our top bankers still got their six digit bonuses, whilst the government has done nothing to help the people who are the worst off. I didn't see the government helping small businesses with grants, where 0.01% of the banks bailout could have saved some small businesses from closing down during the recession; or the money could have saved families from losing their homes.

I do agree with the point of wealthy people having much more power over democracy and this is not how it should be.

 

[Dan]

Ok, those are some fair points which I didn't think of. The economy is in hard times and I do think that the governments of the world favour the wealthy over the average person. For example, the huge bank bailouts which happened, yet in England our top bankers still got their six digit bonuses, whilst the government has done nothing to help the people who are the worst off. I didn't see the government helping small businesses with grants, where 0.01% of the banks bailout could have saved some small businesses from closing down during the recession; or the money could have saved families from losing their homes.

I do agree with the point of wealthy people having much more power over democracy and this is not how it should be.

Well... that is the "trickle down effect" when they do corporate bailouts. The idea is that the large corporations will be able to sustain the economy by providing jobs and doing business; while giving money to a small business that might still fall over in a years time and which won't create or hold jobs for others would be less effective. There are many supporters and many opponents of the idea though. I'm not an economist so it's really hard to say which is better. I like the idea of giving a "stimulus" to the people in hard times simply because I like being given money... XD That was nice... I had a decent job at the time anyways so it was a nice plus.

 

[FireCat]

I don't think they're jealous, I think they're upset with the fact that a highschool graduate father of four could support his family while his wife remains a stay at home mother raising the children; just 30 years ago. Now this situation would probably require both parents to work and at least one of the kids to help pay for their education. Not to mention, I don't think they're mostly pissed about the 1%'s wealth but rather that they have more influence on this so called "democracy" than the rest of the 99% of the population.

QFT

while giving money to a small business that might still fall over in a years time and which won't create or hold jobs for others would be less effective.

But It will give people a chance to start a Business Well, you might fail or succeed. It all depends what kind of ideas you have and so on. So why not?
And really you can't compare the billion in bailouts after bailouts been given to other large corporations/country etc.. Vs "small business" That's Just a needle in a haystack.

Spoiler

That's kinda true, isn't it?

 

[Ninva]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/embed/8775ZmNGFY8?feature=player_embedded[/video]

I really don't understand how people say this is nothing. And it really upsets me that TH.net has gone into this direction. I guess this is where I realize it's time to move on.

Good bye.

 

[FireCat]

I really don't understand how people say this is nothing.

Seriously, It doesn't really matter where you are. There's always someone saying it.
Well, More or Less.

 

[BlowingKush]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/embed/8775ZmNGFY8?feature=player_embedded[/video]

I really don't understand how people say this is nothing. And it really upsets me that TH.net has gone into this direction. I guess this is where I realize it's time to move on.

Good bye.

I am there with you. I don't blame TH necessarily, but
it is staggering how willing the youth of this nation is to allow thier rights and freedoms to be shit on.
They have no respect for the lives lost to deliver freedom so they may one day have a chance to protest
without the threat of physical violence. And this is just one instance, i've been preaching against shit like this for ever.

Like I said, USA is the new Iran. And I hope the youth of this nation enjoys the shithole it advocates for.