World Bin Laden Dead - killed by US Strike Team

[Hatebreeder]

So separate them for me. Bin Laden was seen as a leader and head of terrorist groups. Hitler was the leader of the German army. Both carried out mass murders on innocent people. Their mediums, weather planes or gas chambers don't really matter.

What do their objectives matter? Neither succeeded in their objectives so it's pointless to even discuss them when debating their actions. The actions are what matter and they both went about their business in the same fashion. Would you really say Bin Laden isn't a sociopath?

I still don't see why not to applaud. In the greater scheme of things, a person's life is as invaluable as that of an ant's in our eyes.

>>and this permits you to abandom the human rights too huh?

it's the law of the land, they were on Pakistani soil to they obey their laws, which just so happens to not include most if not all of the human rights that are sacred over here.

Hitler killed alone in Poland 3 million people. He sent in troops of his own to attack Germany and because of that, he had a legitimate reason to attack Poland. Sure, Hitler and Bin Laden are both Murderers, BUT Hitler always had backups and placed himself in a privillaged position.

So, in my eyes he was at very first a polititian and then a murderer.

Bin Laden operated as he pleased. He didn't need a reason. He didn't have the presure of a whole country on his shoulders. Bin Laden did not kill near as much people as Hitler did.

Bin Laden isn't a sociopath; he did not differenciate between the Master Race and other races. He did not use Darvin's evolution theory to create social Darvinism. All he did was use religion - he promissed eternal life with a lot of virgins to his members. He merely decieved/let his members believe that it is a good thing to serve him; it serves a higher proposal.
Now, I believe that Bin Laden wanted to take revenge on America for whatever reason. He does not disapprove of the western culture as a whole ( the EU would've been a easier target, wouldn't you say ? ) and therefore he is more of a terrorist than a sociopath.

Also, Hitler wasn't just a leader of an army. He had control over the legislative, the executive and the judicative branch, which makes him something more powerfull than a leader.

Also, I do not share your oppinion on the value of a human being. Placing a value on something means that one can own that very thing. If something is invaluable, then it is free for anyone to take - makes sence, or?
And that is why one should not applaud - nothing changes with the value of a human life. The death of Bin Laden is as important as the death of maybe your aunt or something. The only thing what makes Bin Laden's death so different are the consequences that come along. If you want to applaud the consequences, do as you want. But not the death or the life of a human being.

 

[sqrage]

I do believe you're German so you probably have some construed beliefs about Hitler, but trust me, he wasn't doing anything good. Just because he had a lot of power doesn't excuse his actions. How did the nation rest on his actions? After he died Germany didn't crumble into ruin. If he always had backups why did he lose the war? And why is the fact that he had backups relevant anyway?

Bin Laden is not a sociopath, really? "a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience." Think again. Planning the murder of thousands of innocent people requires a lack of moral responsibility. Being a sociopath has nothing to do about master races or Hitler's beliefs, it is a psychological state of mind.

Just because something is invaluable doesn't mean it's free for the taking. I don't care very much about my material possessions, ipods, cellphones, etc, I'd even say they're invaluable: I wouldn't be sadly by their loss. That obviously doesn't mean people are free to come and take them from me without reason. Lives are valuable only to yourself and those who enjoy your presence. Bin Laden is dead, so obviously his life being valuable to himself is out of the question. And I do believe those that had direct contact with him were also sociopaths, so I don't really care about their opinions and sadness of their loss.

 

[Azlier]

Ahem, before things get more confusing, the word 'invaluable' is used to describe when something is priceless, so important that you would never trade it for anything. You should try 'unimportant' or 'worthless' or something.

With that out of the way, it is relevant to the discussion that bin Laden had a rather large family and perhaps close friends. His family and friends did help him with his acts of violence, but I certainly doubt they are all socio/psychopaths. No doubt they mourn his loss. Is it right to ignore them go on partying over the death of their loved one?

Even if bin Laden's supporters celebrated the slaughter of innocent citizens, it does not give us the right to reciprocate such evil. As Mahatma Gandhi told us long ago, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. We cannot ignore the plight of even our most dreaded enemies and aggressors, lest we become the monsters.

 

[Accname]

you arent really saying that if american soldiers operate on foreign territory they can obey the rules of their homeland and slaughter people as they please as long as they go hand in hand with the laws of the country they are at.

the reason for america, and of course the rest of the world, to have laws which ensure human rights is because the people believe in these laws, they know by heart that these laws are the right thing and these laws should be holy to them. if not, the laws themselfs are useless, they are nothing more but a piece of written paper, there is no value connected to them behind our believes in human rights.

if you really say the life of a man is of no value how can you dare calling other people terrorists?

 

[UndeadDragon]

if you really say the life of a man is of no value how can you dare calling other people terrorists?

The life of one person may not be so significant, however the life of thousands of people that this one person may have killed are far more significant.

 

[Hatebreeder]

I do believe you're German so you probably have some construed beliefs about Hitler, but trust me, he wasn't doing anything good. Just because he had a lot of power doesn't excuse his actions. How did the nation rest on his actions? After he died Germany didn't crumble into ruin. If he always had backups why did he lose the war? And why is the fact that he had backups relevant anyway?

Bin Laden is not a sociopath, really? "a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience." Think again. Planning the murder of thousands of innocent people requires a lack of moral responsibility. Being a sociopath has nothing to do about master races or Hitler's beliefs, it is a psychological state of mind.

Just because something is invaluable doesn't mean it's free for the taking. I don't care very much about my material possessions, ipods, cellphones, etc, I'd even say they're invaluable: I wouldn't be sadly by their loss. That obviously doesn't mean people are free to come and take them from me without reason. Lives are valuable only to yourself and those who enjoy your presence. Bin Laden is dead, so obviously his life being valuable to himself is out of the question. And I do believe those that had direct contact with him were also sociopaths, so I don't really care about their opinions and sadness of their loss.

We don't have any belief in Hitler. To us, he was a psychopath.
I never said that he has done anything good. I just said, that he didn't attack on whim and backed up his intentions with reasons that seem legitimate. He lost the war because he thought that Germany was superior. He was a megalomaniac.

Well, Bin Laden didn't really live in a society, did he? But I get what you mean.

So you're basically saying that it's perfectly fine to applaud his death? I sorta lost the thread there.

 

[Accname]

The life of one person may not be so significant, however the life of thousands of people that this one person may have killed are far more significant.

if you (or others as well) really believe in this you should not try to use the human rights or the law of any western country in an arguement like this. because our laws state that each and every human life is priceless, one cannot measure a life against an other. you cannot say how worthwhile a life is or how many other lifes it takes to justify the death of one because for any creature its own survival (and maybe the lifes of his family or beloved ones) is above everything else in the world.

you might not think the life of a terrorist is significant, but for the terrorist or his family or his friends it certainly is.
placing oneself on top of other people by deciding whos life is "significant" or how many people one has to kill untill ones life is not significant anymore is no better then killing people yourself. its inhuman, and definitely against the thought and will of our ancestors who worked out these human rights and the constitution.

in my opinion, every man who applauds to the death of an other man is the complete opposite of what is called the idea behind the united states of america.

 

[tom_mai78101]

That is, if we go by the saying, "If all men are the perfect men..."

 

[FireCat]

Terrorism is simply the act of committing violence/aggression and power over a group of people in order to make them slaves for life. eh? "Kind of Brainwashing"
Well, If you don't do what they say you're dead. Isn't that right?
And terrorism are based of a religion. You see, a terrorist kills for a wrong belief of others. No?

their methods are different

It doesn't really matter which method they used.

Like you said

They're both men that did harm to the human race

Dictator, terrorist, or whatever. They are not only sociopathic scum, They are murders!

Btw: A terrorist can be a psychopath

 

[UndeadDragon]

if you (or others as well) really believe in this you should not try to use the human rights or the law of any western country in an arguement like this. because our laws state that each and every human life is priceless, one cannot measure a life against an other. you cannot say how worthwhile a life is or how many other lifes it takes to justify the death of one because for any creature its own survival (and maybe the lifes of his family or beloved ones) is above everything else in the world.

I think about it like this: All people's lives are as significant as each other. 1 person vs 1000 people makes them not so significant.

I am not comparing Osama to each person who he might have killed, I'm comparing these victims to him as a whole. His family and friends may grieve over him, however thousands of families may grieve over the others.

 

[Hatebreeder]

Terrorism is simply the act of committing violence/aggression and power over a group of people in order to make them slaves for life. eh? "Kind of Brainwashing"
Well, If you don't do what they say you're dead. Isn't that right?
And terrorism are based of a religion. You see, a terrorist kills for a wrong belief of others. No?

It doesn't really matter which method they used.

Like you said

Dictator, terrorist, or whatever. They are not only sociopathic scum, They are murders!

Btw: A terrorist can be a psychopath

So, Sociopaths are all mass murderers equal to Hitler. Fine, if you say so.

However, I still don't see why to applaud the death of a human. In a way, it makes one seem like a hypocrite, because terrorists applaud the death of their enemies and if one applauds the death of a terrorist, doesn't that make you as bad as they are?

Yet again, IMO it's fine to applaud the consequences caused by the death of a person, but not the death of a person. If you lived in oppression for instance and the person oppressing you dies, then you can celebrate your freedom. Celebrating that persons death is just tasteless - I don't believe that people are violent or evil the moment they killed someone else, because that is not the way people function - one is not solely bad because he has done something against the norms; in fact, the circumstances cause the people to act that way and like Tom said, Humans are not perfect.

 

[sqrage]

I think you're just indirectly celebrating their death if you're celebrating to consequences of their death. It just puts a mask over it.

 

[Azlier]

I do believe it is possible to be thankful for the consequences of an action rather than the action itself. Let's go back to Hitler for a second.

During the whole Holocaust shebang, Nazi scientists experimented on many of the Jews, leading to discoveries that brought about great advancements in medicine. Surely these findings that bring about healthier lives for everyone are cause for celebration? But at the same time, one does not celebrate the fact that so many Jews died painful deaths at the hands of these doctors.

While bin Laden's death may bring about much good in the world, I would rather he wasn't outright slaughtered when he was found.

 

[Accname]

i must agree with hatebreeder and azlier.

if a man dies you can celebrate the consequences this might have for you or mankind but you can still feel sorry for his death or regret the pain he suffered. death is not always equal.
no matter how bin laden died the consequences would be (in some aspects at least) the same while his death might have been more painful or less human then in other cases.
the way he was killed, a sneaky commando team breaking into his home and shooting everything and everyone in the house, is nothing i would call a good way to die. for nobody not even for terrorists or sociopaths. they are still human as you and i and feel the pain as we do.

at least we shouldnt applaud to this slaughter and make a big party.

 

[xPass]

the way he was killed, a sneaky commando team breaking into his home and shooting everything and everyone in the house, is nothing i would call a good way to die.

Neither do I...

 

[Hatebreeder]

I think you're just indirectly celebrating their death if you're celebrating to consequences of their death. It just puts a mask over it.

I didn't celebrate Bin Laden's death.
I am happy about the temporary relief, but the war on terrorism is not over. It will never be over.

To put a mask over it? I'm pretty sure I'm not and I'm pretty sure it's not same. In fact, the difference is grave !

 

[Zakyath]

I just think is weird they didn't capture him for a trial. Now the US acts just as bad as the terrorists.

 

[xPass]

but the war on terrorism is not over. It will never be over.

Damn, means we'll have to continue learning Terrorism for Social Studies! >.<