New maps !

[Bloodcount]

Along with a new season of ladder play, we continue to update and refresh the map pools, with the goal of providing a fresh and invigorating set of challenges for StarCraft II players of all stripes. With the start of Season 3, you'll find a number of new maps to explore and master:

Some of the maps.

Clicky

 

[Vestras]

Saw it, looks decent. Can't really tell before I've played them though.

 

[Romek]

Maps that aren't symmetrical (have been 'rotated') aren't balanced.

In all honesty though, I miss the scenery from WC3 maps. SC2 maps seem so bland.

 

[Vestras]

In all honesty though, I miss the scenery from WC3 maps. SC2 maps seem so bland.

These do, the GSL maps don't IMO.

 

[Bloodcount]

What I see is that Blizzard are promoting fast expanding- you can easily wall in or protect your expo and ramp with spines.


I agree that the maps are empty, but the feeling of the games was different. Warcraft 3 had a funny side, the things the units spoke when you made them talk for a longer time, the optional quests, mini campaing and hidden missions.

Starcraft II brings more the feeling of a real war- cold, empty.

 

[Slapshot136]

I still miss the hero's and creeps (neutral enemies) from wc3..

 

[Bloodcount]

I don't. It made the game too easy, too repeatable.

 

[Romek]

> Warcraft 3 had a funny side, the things the units spoke when you made them talk for a longer time, the optional quests, mini campaing and hidden missions. Starcraft II brings more the feeling of a real war- cold, empty.
I can't disagree with this. Though I don't see how that has anything to do with making maps boring. I've seen a few replays on a map called Bel'Shir Beach (or something along those lines) that looks awesome, and still works perfectly well for melee games.

 

[Bloodcount]

> Warcraft 3 had a funny side, the things the units spoke when you made them talk for a longer time, the optional quests, mini campaing and hidden missions. Starcraft II brings more the feeling of a real war- cold, empty.
I can't disagree with this. Though I don't see how that has anything to do with making maps boring. I've seen a few replays on a map called Bel'Shir Beach (or something along those lines) that looks awesome, and still works perfectly well for melee games.

I agree.

IN that case the SCII map creating team isn't as talanted ^_^

 

[s3rius]

Dunno, when I see Bel'shir Beaches I kinda don't like it because of too much scenery.
In a game play aspect the water is an annoyance.
Nice to look at, though.

 

[YourFace]

Warcraft 3 had more strategy and micro to it.

 

[Bloodcount]

Warcraft 3 had more strategy and micro to it.

Defend the argument.

 

[Slapshot136]

Defend the argument.

it had all the diverse units/types that sc2 has, + more spells and abilities on units, + hero's + neutral shops + neutral enemies + items - what has sc2 got?

 

[s3rius]

Warpgates, the larva mechanic, less position-centered combat due to the lack of heroes, watchtowers, gold minerals/high yield gas, creep, Stimpack (hurr!), flying buildings, forcefields.

 

[Bloodcount]

it had all the diverse units/types that sc2 has, + more spells and abilities on units, + hero's + neutral shops + neutral enemies + items - what has sc2 got?

What sort of diverse abilities ? Wc3 was uberboring in terms of units.


Warcraft 3 has no micro. My 12 year old version cloud micro GOOD
Warcraft 3 has no macro. I never get supply blocked nor am I unable to saturate my base. You just build one of each unit production building and buy items with the rest of the gold...
Warcraft 3 has boring abilities. Let's compare tier one units: Rifelman- range upgrade (at tier2) Footman defend. It is either on or off. You obviously turn it on only when you are fighting ranged units, it just screws up the footmans elsewize. Night elves have only hide as an active ability (which was pretty cool I give you that) the undeads have canibalism (or whatever was the ghouls spell) which is out of battle spell which you just do. The orcs have nothing active(though pillage was cool)

Let's take a brief look at starcraft: Forcefields, transfuse, chronoboost, scans, guardian shield. Without upgrades. With upgrades- blink, charge, stim, combat shield (it has a stim combination) concussive shells, hallusination, burrow.

All of these spells have both offencive and defencive usages.

Warcraft 3 is uberly crippled in terms of gameplay:

If you want your army to engage good in SCII, you must micro your units's positions before the battle, so that they are in place, you must micro in the battle AND macro at the same time, since you produce more than 1 production facility at a time from a base.

The high/low ground mechanic in wc3 is a miserable % to miss, where as in SCII being in the dark is quite bad.

In warcraft III you didn't need to scout since the entire army had to always be at one place....

Let's compare the night elve's hide and burrow. With both you can hide your units. Thing is, with the hide you can't make ambushes, because it isn't always night time, and you can't one shot a unit with 4-5.

The phase of warcraft is realllllyyyy slow, compared to SCII.

 

[Slapshot136]

micro and macro are just as important in wc3 as they are in sc2.. and wc3 has supply (food) just like sc2..

you completely missed the hero spells and items - most of those are tier 1 as well, and the real variety of spells in wc3 comes from the 3 spell-caster units of each race + the 3 hero's - there is no armor boosting spell in sc2, no -armor, no % accuracy reduction, no tracking spell, no lifesteal, no + damage spell, few AOE spells and small AOE at that, no attack speed bonus/reduction, no move speed reduction, no energy heal, no shield heal (sc1 had that) only 1 aura (mothership invis), and most of the other spells are a watered-down version of the wc3 one

unit positioning is important in wc3 as well..

the high/low ground is similarly effective, since it applies even when you have vision - you need to reposition your entire army to fight it, as opposed to just doing a scan/sending a scout in sc2.. also, in wc3, you get the evasion bonus if the unit was moving, not only on high/low ground

not sure wtf you mean the entire army had to always be at one place..

with hide, you can make ambushes - use a moon stone (tier 1, 50 gold)

also, in sc2 there are rocks - really? that is just lazy map-making, while in wc3 there are trees, which opens up a lot more back-door routes into the enemies base, as opposed to pre-determined choke-points that are easy to defend

now let me be fair and give sc2 it's pro's:
gold minerals that mine faster
force fields are a unique spell that is not available in wc3
siege mode is unique
collosi are unique by being both ground and air
void rays increased damage is unique

@ s3rius - flying buildings are similar to uproot, except they can't attack while flying, and can't eat trees to heal/create a path, lava mechanics aren't in the melee game, true no watchtowers, but there are goblin observatories that can basically give you a "scan" of where you want.. yes, the gold minerals/high yield is good, I suppose wc3 balances that out by giving gold for killing creeps/selling loot, stimpacks is just a weaker version of bloodlust, and yes force fields are unique..

 

[Bloodcount]

The asets you pointed out that wc3 has as well are existant and important. Thing is in starcraft 2 they require waaay more skill to do. That wass my statement all along- warcraft 3 is omgwtfbbq easy. And... I am not alone on this one. A lot of ex sc:bw pro players agree with this statement.

 

[Accname]

getting a bit offtopic guys arent you?

let me participate in the rant!
i think wc3 and sc2 are very different but i guess they were meant to be so in the first place.

the top most difference is that in sc2 all units die alot ALOT faster then in wc3.
in sc2 a unit means nothing. what is a marine? 45 hp and 50 mineral costs. you send it out, it dies, you train a new one.

In wc3 a grunt had 700 hp (if i remember correctly) and costs 205 gold. in comparison, a battle between a marine and a zergling lasts like 1 second, a battle between a grunt and a footman lasts almost forever.
And the unit counts are a big difference as well, sc2 is meant for mass units: 30 zerglings are nothing.
Wc3 is based on only a few units, you can only select 12 at a time, their collision is huge, 30 grunts would block each other so much, they couldnt even attack in most situations.

i would say sc2 is much more fast paced, and every little mistake is punished alot harder. the question is whether you like this or not: i dont.

should we start an own thread for this discussion?

 

[Bloodcount]

.
should we start an own thread for this discussion?

If such a thread would be created I would post a few times there ^_^

 

[Accname]

a few times at once i guess for epic multi post action.