who banlists?

[-fool-]

i do. i like it a lot actually. usually you dont see the same people twice, but i like it for region check; what i use the most.

i got like 250+ personal bans and ive only been using it a while. id say 200 of them are just banning people from malaysia.. taiwan.. singapore.. GREECE. GERMANY. BULGARIA..... you know.

wierdest one i saw was israel..

 

[Sargon]

What do you ban people for?

 

[Myzteryz]

I don't like banlist, nothing personal, I haven't been banned with a banlist or anything but I just don't like the goal..
after that, you share you're banlist then Bye Bye custom games

 

[-fool-]

i only enforce it for dota, and i ban for

1. leaving
2. not living in north/south america

youd be amazed at how many people live in asia/austrailia and play on uswest.

actually i use it for other games on a player by player basis. you can add comments to your ban, and i sometimes if i really dont like the person ill add "all games" and i know to kick them from all games.

 

[Im_On_56k]

I hate the banlist. The people who use it think they are god and can control the custom games, I won't even comment on the creater.

 

[Sargon]

2. not living in north/south america

So you wouldn't ban someone in Argentina with dialup, but you would ban someone in Australia with blazing fast internet just because he lives in Australia? Doesn't make much sense to me.

As a side note, exactly where is the Asia server, anyway?

 

[R15I23D05D14]

Study in the paper today -> Australia has low average broadand usage.

Mind you, Gamers probably have 90% Broadband usage.

Go statistics,

 

[-fool-]

there is a /pingall command, and you could just do ping, and find out who lives where.

USA/CA = 30-100 ping
South America = 100-200 ping
Austrailia, Asia = 300+ ping

thats from what ive seen, so given the pings of peolple i play i ban any non-america. (and only enforce it on dota games).

i dont know where the asia server is, if there is one, or what, but id say 50% of custom games on uswest are made from asians/aussies. (dont beleive me? go look. anything with sg/tw/my/nz/hk/aus host, 3.7... is asian/aus.)

anyway, i dont know how it is on useast on other servers, but on uswest there are so many people from across the pacific ocean that i use banlist to keep out laggers. im not "taking over custom games", i dont even download the tda and banlist.de lists - no point in trying to bring private gaming into the pub community. just like fps game servers have mods that kick pingers over X ping, i do the same in wc3.

 

[Nenad]

I dont get this my ping is 130 on uswest and i live in europe and u would still ban me?

 

[kcorB]

Why ban people at all like i admit I'd ban people with like 300 ping too but what if they have a good ping but dont speak english....would you ban them?

 

[hobo218]

the banlist sucks...i dont think people should be able to regulate who plays warcraft and who doesnt...we payed for the game so we should get to play...

and as for banning people who live in a different country...why not just kick them from the game....?

(not trying to start an argument here...)
-hobo218

 

[kcorB]

I know this is off topic but how do you change the little description under your name when you post?

 

[PB_and_J]

You should check out the banlist conversation w/ SD_Royoko.

 

[Shadowy Fear]

kcorb, you need to be a special member or a higher rank. Then it should be in your Options Commands.

Ya, there was already a thread for this (and it got pretty inflamatory, too, so Ryoko eventually closed it).

Why ban people who go on to other servers? I play on US_East (instead of US_West) so I can play with my friends --- why ban people just becaue of that?

I don't like the concept of the banlist 'feature'. While its creator's intentions might have been good, it really isn't. Sometimes I get disconnnected or a power fluctuation shuts off my computer --- should I get banned for that? It just gives people a control they weren't given in the first place for a reason.

Some people heavily abuse it, as well. They can ban you at their leisure when they get mad at you for beating you or some other ridiculous charge.

As for the DotA banlists ---> I find those laughable. Some people get banned for doing 'illegal' moves, like backdooring. The creator of the banlist system entirely missed the point of things like that --- to make a good game, you should fix the mistakes, flaws, and exploits, instead of writing a program like the banlist.

Although, in the end, it really is the host's choice. While the program is exploitable and unforgiving (getting banned for a simple mistake made out of ignorance or because you are new and then not being able to join a game for a month, rofl), it is the host's descision - after all, they ARE hosting the game for you. It would probably be better just to get the game from the site or a non-banlist game and host it yourself.

The only real trouble arises when they don't announce that they are using banlist

I don't play DotA, though, or even Battlenet anymore, so my view should be unbiased.

 

[-fool-]

as a player i can choose between playing a lag free game or a lag fest game, and id rather choose lag free.

Gaming leagues and competitions have rules that if teams average pings are 20 apart or more, then the match must be moved to another server or not played. Is that fair? Are they allowed to say you cant play competitively because you have 56k or you live far away?

Yes. They can say that all they want, because its thier gaming experience. If people want to have fun, and not have to deal with lag they should be able to. And all the low pingers in the world wont be able to cry enough to stop me. I paid for this game too, and it gets ruined when every 2 seconds the game chops for 1 second, or every minute someone lags out for 44 seconds, but then comes back.

Maybe its just because i am an fps gamer and im used to privately owned servers by people and teams (and private servers and leagues and all) where this is commonplace. No one stops you from banning, kicking, or not allowing laggers, and im just brining that to my dota games.

 

[SilverHawk]

This thread is likely to be closed. This discussion has occured before and always ends up out of control.

 

[Sud]

I personally have to run a banlist. This is not because of some greater malice towards people, but simply because I am trying to play a game that I want to finish with the actual completion of the game.

Because it's a fledgling map, I have no time to waste with retards who leave because they judge their hero weak (which is 99.9% their own playing weakness), or because they did something stupid. Those people go on the banlist.

Likewise if you want to incite some kind of revolution by trying to ruin other people's game, or try to influence them in a negative manner, that'll be a ban as well.

I also unfortunately have to ban for problematic connections or extremely slow computers, as per the above about ruining people's game. Dota might be a little more merciful about the garbage pentium 1 90mhzs joining their games (they actively hide the "who's loading" screen), but I am not. In this day and age, it's within everyone's ability to get a halfway decent computer system. Not to say that I always ban the person who's last to load, but definitely those who are so slow they count down to almost nothing (after making everyone wait through a 5 minute load time). It's to their advantage anyways since those people usually report frame lag which is a result of their insufficient machines.

I don't ban based on geographical area, or even ping. Neither of these are a factor in whether or not a "waiting for players..." dialog, that is based solely on their internet provider's stability. Even if they have a 300 ping, that'll be their burden to bear on my server, and they'll have to deal with their command delay. I play with Australians with far more stable connections than some of the people on USEast.

Of course when someone joins that is banned I will paste the reason they were banned before booting them.

I am generally open to giving people a second chance at it, and will allow an appeal if it's asked for nicely. Otherwise, they're a malefactor.

One more point to make - battle.net custom games are like running a private server. All the data is handled by the host's machine, the only interaction with battle.net being the game being broadcast publically to join. This is one of the reasons why, for example, blizzard does not monitor custom games for hacks. As with any incoming connection to your computer, you can easily, and rightfully, monitor the IPs of the people making connections to you, and if they are someone you don't want connecting, you have full rights to deny them access, bottom line. Anyone can easily alt tab, do a netstat, and see the connections to their machine, banlist is simply an easier method in which to do that.

The battle.net community does a good job of showing off what people can be like when they perceive themselves to be in an environment where they are free of consequences and repercussions. At least banlist gives hosts sick of the usual leaving retards some kind of power over the situation. If you get disconnected or have some other emergency, simply asking to get off the list should be enough (though I hear the Dota nerds have a hilarious policy in which you have to submit proof, such as doctor's notes, to them to get unbanned).

 

[XXXconanXXX]

Yes. They can say that all they want, because its thier gaming experience.

But it is not there game, correct?

I paid for this game too, and it gets ruined when every 2 seconds the game chops for 1 second, or every minute someone lags out for 44 seconds, but then comes back.

So did they, and they should also have the right to play the game.

I can see your point, but the problem I see is that you judge people just by where they live and their connection speed. I would just kick them DURING the game if it becomes a lag-fest rather than completely banning them before the game starts.

EDIT ~ Fool seems like a nice enough and intelligent guy, so I don't believe this thread will be closed. Unless someone else pops in and starts flaming.

 

[Shadowy Fear]

Ya, as long as the people from the banlist forums don't come in, this shouldn't devolve into a flame-fest.

There are still many hosts who don't use banlist, so it doesn't bother me much (I do find it funny how they have entire website forums dedicated to banlists and unbanning people, though --- don't they have a life? ROFL ) and I never go on Battlenet anyway.

I disagree with Sud about everyone being able to get a decent computer system, though. Many people on Battlenet are minors, some less than 13 years old, and you can't really expect them to be able to afford DSL or cable internet or good computers all the time.

Still, it's their fault for trying to play without reading the battlenet optimum system requirements

Banlist is probably better (for the banned user) than waiting five minutes pounding uselessly on your moniter, and then having to endure tons of flames when you start lagging (and lagging so horribly you can't get to the menu to shut off Warcraft).

Warcraft 3 is sinking like a dead whale, anyways. I doubt there will be much more left in 2-3 years; modders are simply reaching the ends of their limits and things they can do with the editor, most players have left for WoW, Battle.net has pretty much abandoned Warcraft III (and with good reason; with over 2 million users paying 15$ a month, they get over 360 million a year in income, which is probably more than Warcraft 3 made in its lifetime), and no new players are coming (because Warcraft III is pretty much off the shelves, with only the battle chest packs remaining here and there. The expansion wasn't so great --- if they had introduced a new, PLAYABLE melee race, it would have been much better, but instead they give you 1/2 a race, rofl.

 

[Myzteryz]

ppl say a new patch might be coming with the ladder reset
cross ur fingers