Abortion

[Zakyath]

two horny teens having bad luck while having sex for the first time (with condom)? It just doesn't sound fair :/

no one earns on an unwanted baby.

 

[Bartuc08]

two horny teens having bad luck while having sex for the first time (with condom)? It just doesn't sound fair :/

no one earns on an unwanted baby.

what i'm getting from your side of the argument is that an unwanted baby should die?

there are people out there who can't have kids and are willign to take an adopted kid, not every kid gets adopted but being alive is much better then being dead (even if you've only lived for a week and have no idea what's goign on)

but anyway, sorry, lets try to keep this topic on what the original discussion was about, and thats the mans say in an abortion, and people have been doing a good job on that.

 

[TheDamien]

Maybe the title of this thread should be changed to "Mens Rights and Abortion" or something similar.

 

[Zakyath]

>what i'm getting from your side of the argument is that an unwanted baby should die?

Well, not really. It shouldn't even become a baby. Therefore I don't believe it "dies" the same way as we.

Besides, everyone that eats meat should compare it to abort. You're supporting murder if you're eating meat and you can't say that an unborn baby is a lot smarter than a cow.

 

[EatShrooms]

Now you are asking when does a person actually becomes an independent, living human being. Does it happen while pregnancy or once the baby is born? I believe a baby is part of the mother until the birth.

Sure it's apart of the mother, but it should be dealt with as a human once the brain develops in that 4 weeks in my opinion. Maybe you could charge her for suicide then?

 

[stubs101]

Seth... I was just talking to my dad and he was talking about a funny thing that happened in crime rates...

Crime rates were rising higher and higher around the '70's, and people applied a frequency chart to this. It showed a zigzag line from the bottom right to the top left, titled crimes. Then in '74 the Abortion Act was adopted. People assumed things that bordered apocalypse, and suddenly, in the '90's they started going down. People started putting research, time, and money into figuring out why and here's what they came up with: A girl is knocked up by... someone who doesn't care about her, and she's around 14-18, illegal but still, let's just stick to this, and so she cannot afford him/her a good life, or education, and doesn't even have one herself. She does not have a job, no loving father to help support the baby, and then there are two paths we can follow...
1:She has an abortion, and even though she misses the baby she gets and education and a job because she fears this might happen again.
2: She has the baby, raises it, abuses it, and hates it. The baby goes into gangs at an early age, without education and eventually turns to a mafia family. Therefore he commits crimes, and becomes the man who doesn't care about a girl, knocks her up and walks away.

Number two is what happened somewhere in the '70's. Number one started happening around '75. Then when the old criminals died, there wasn't a sufficient number of cold-hearted, abused, angry teens to replace them, and the number kept receding, because less criminals turned out to be the guy that walked away, and finally here we are: Not getting knocked up at 14-18, having safe sex, and aborting when that fails, because face it Seth: Everyone has urges that must be satisfied, that is why there are condoms and pills and that T thing that replaces the baby.

I have said earlier and apparently have to repeat: Abortion, no matter how disgusting and unmoral it is or may seem whichever side you're taking up here, is still necessary.
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Just in case I'll say the man and women should be equal in decision just as they SHOULD be equal in partnership but if not... fine. If the man wants the baby, and the mother doesn't, then the mother should carry it, look at it, then decide whether she stays or runs. If it's Vice Versa, then the man should stay, support the mother during pregnancy, look at the baby, and then decide whether to run or stay.

 

[Tom Jones]

You're failing to realize that there is no "middle ground" in my thinking. If you're having sex, you're giving up the right to abort by realizing you are responsible for what you risk creating. End of story. Game over. Do not pass Go. Do not collect 200 dollars.

I openly admit I'm sexually active. If I were to concieve a child, I would not allow abortion of it because that is my child, that is my consequence. I may try to prevent it, via condoms and various means of birth control, but under no circumstances does this mean I can get a girl pregenant and turn around to say "Oh. Whoops. Well, let me clean up my mess and relieve myself of everything I did."

There's a saying.

You dug your grave, now lie in it.

You created your child, now deal with it.

Both parties are responsible. Accept that and move on with life as best you can. Again; Game over.

If you can reach an understanding with your partner, I fail to see why unwanted children shouldn't be aborted. If you can't reach an understanding you must, as Seth said, live with the consequences or pay child support for the next 18 years.

 

[SilverHawk]

personally if i got a girl pregnant, I'd want to keep the child, even if it meant getting rid of the girl.

Pardon me? Am I reading that correctly?

 

[Seb!]

I don't understand why it has to be a consequence. I mean, using abortion as birth-control is terrible..

But its not all about "your honor" and "facing consequences"... no one cares; the child has to live with it, not just you. Just because a condom broke once, doesn't mean peoples lives have to be changed.

 

[stubs101]

I agree with Seb!.

Say your are like Seth, ready to have a baby, but not particularly WANTING one, what if you get her pregnant due to some birth-control flaw, then while she is pregnant, something goes wrong, you lose your job, house, respect, money... all of it. And you have to support a baby. Now would be a time to abort plan baby. Otherwise (going back to my other post) it's gansta time for you little one.

(BTW:Happy Valentines lol)

 

[SilverHawk]

I personally don't believe in bearing burdens just for the sake of doing so. I also don't believe that human life begins in the womb. Therefore, I approve of abortions, in most cases.

 

[Sim]

The real question is: is the fetus really a human being?

If it is, then you have absolutely no right to kill it/him. It would be completely immoral to kill him.

If it isn't, then it would be "morally ok" to do so in terms of getting rid of him as much as you would get rid of an annoying, sick, or unwanted pet...

 

[esb]

That's the issue. Besides responsibility Seth said, there's "moral" something many look down on based on religion. Other might think it's survival of the fittest. And because of your mistake, a baby should die to make your life easier, and maybe it's life not as miserable as it would have been. But If the father wants to be responsible and take care of the kid, the mother should keep it, for 9 months.

 

[Bartuc08]

Pardon me? Am I reading that correctly?

let me rephrase it with more detail

If i got a girl pregnant, and she didn't want the baby, I'd offer to take it from her (after she gives birth to him/her) and she doesn't even have to stay.

i want o to have children, lots in fact. i don't plan on starting early but if by accident i get one early then all my plans get moved up a bit is all. i mgiht have to make some arrangements but I'm pretty sure i could live with it. then when I'm ready, I'll continue to have more.

 

[stubs101]

"The real question is: Is the fetus really a human being?"

No... that's not the "real question." The real question is how much of a say does a man in the whole abortion thing have. Though we have kinda strayed off target there so... yeah lol.

And the moral thing.. I respect your opinion, and all I want to do is cast my vote and leave the whole affair untouched. I believe that abortion is morally wrong, no matter if it isn't a human. It's a human in progress. Killing it is like extinguishing a life that hasn't had the chance to live. But even if it is morally wrong (Like I believe) it's still necessary. If a couple can't afford, or are having problems, etc. But I think you should refrain from it until it becomes necessary.

 

[SilverHawk]

In all practical sense, one cannot make legal decisions based on potential. Should a potential murderer be imprisoned? Should a potential child molester be condemned? If society starts passing judgments based on potential, it will be the start of the collapse of our legal system.

 

[ReVolver]

I have to agree with Seth here, sex (intercourse) was made by nature only to make off springs, not to have pleasure. People need to think in their heads that it is the only thing it is for.

 

[TheDamien]

"Made" by nature?

 

[Bartuc08]

I have to agree with Seth here, sex (intercourse) was made by nature only to make off springs, not to have pleasure. People need to think in their heads that it is the only thing it is for.

actually, humans 9and other species mate for pleasure unlike other species, but i do believe self control should be practiced and abortion isn't the fix-it tool for everything...

 

[Seb!]

Well if we start talking about potential..

Isn't thought potential? A women wants to have a child, and then she decides not to. Isn't she erasing the life that the child could have had? Isn't she doing the same thing that an abortion does?

So the question really is - where does life start.. Because potential is not a good argument.