Abortion

[Pineapple]

Interestingly enough, the show Boston Legal had an episode air not that long ago about almost the same subject. It was a pretty good episode too.

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If a boby is born when it is not wanted or cant be cared for, everyone suffers. The baby will be ignore, abused, etc... and it will ruin the parents lifes, without proper sorces of income and such they would become a strain on our economy.

What if the woman claims to be on birth control? Then pop, shes pregnant? Should be man have to suffer becuase she decieved him? Was it his fault?

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At the least, if the conception is accidental and the father says that he does not want the baby, he shouldn't have to help raise it or pay money beucase of it. If the woman wants it so bad she can raise it her self.

 

[WolSHaman]

Interestingly enough, the show Boston Legal had an episode air not that long ago about almost the same subject. It was a pretty good episode too.

-------------

If a boby is born when it is not wanted or cant be cared for, everyone suffers. The baby will be ignore, abused, etc... and it will ruin the parents lifes, without proper sorces of income and such they would become a strain on our economy.

What if the woman claims to be on birth control? Then pop, shes pregnant? Should be man have to suffer becuase she decieved him? Was it his fault?

~~

At the least, if the conception is accidental and the father says that he does not want the baby, he shouldn't have to help raise it or pay money beucase of it. If the woman wants it so bad she can raise it her self.

First off, high five fellow Boston Legal fan!
Second off, I think that it should be purely the women's choice unless the man can prove fraud, like in the Boston Legal episode or, in a more realistic case, he can prove that she wasn't on the pill when she said she was.

 

[EatShrooms]

If the baby grows a brain then it's human to me. 4 weeks gestation is when the spine and brain begin to grow. It should be murder if it's killed. But I say it's ultimately up to the mother whether or not it should live. Hanger method, whatever you please, just keep in mind your killing someone.

 

[Rheias]

Now you are asking when does a person actually becomes an independent, living human being. Does it happen while pregnancy or once the baby is born? I believe a baby is part of the mother until the birth.

 

[stubs101]

Well the man should get almost as much of a choice as the mother because he still has to raise it... He should be able to say, " I can't and won't have this baby, so if you don't abort it, then I'm out and am not going to send envelopes full of money back..." or something along the lines of that. And I agree that required by law there should be two signatures on the terms sheet. A woman who is young, who is scared, should be able to get an abortion if her fear is concentrated on life and death, if it's on the kid and welfare, then have the kid and give him/her to an adoption clinic, who knows, he/she might get adopted. And even if he/she doesn't, he'll/she'll hopefully support himself/herself at 21 and lead a life, compared to being ripped from his/her mother and killed before birth. And if the man is scared for his wife (the mother, not necessarily the wife), unless the mother is absolutely dead sure she will raise this kid and be able to provide for him, then abortion it is...

Anyway, I think abortion is morally wrong, like genocide, but still necessary for people who fit the above conditions.

 

[Bartuc08]

when most peopel argue this they go off the premise that the man is jsut some jerk off and the women is a whore

lets look at it like so

two well off people are getting along great, they both use protection but something goes wrong (as it does happen). the Father wants to keep the baby regardless of his lovers choice. the women on the other hand wants to abort the baby. Why should the women get the final (or only) say in what is to happen to what is essentially both their creation.

The women houses the baby for 9 months, and the man is willign to take the child for the rest of his/her life. Not all men are fathers who just abandon a women who is pregnant, some would love to have children. it seems like y'all are focusing on the first stereotype thou.

i can understand if a women has a high risk of death from giving birth, and the choice falls down to er in that sense. but other then that a man should be a part of the final say on abortions.

if i got my G/F pregnant i'd want to keep the child regardless of financial issues and whether she wants an abortion or not.

 

[Seb!]

Yes, he should be part of the final say.. But when it comes down to one's word versus the other, the woman should choose. They have to pay if they guy runs. Anyway, females can almost get pregnant without males (anyone see that article about the lesbian pregnancy in TH a few days ago?) So she doesn't need the guy at all.

 

[esb]

Why do women get to choose everything? They shouldn't choose to abort if the guy want's to keep it. They shouldn't choose to have it if the guy doesn't want it, AND get child support.

And getting pregnant isn't the deal, it's what to do after you're pregnant.

And about the article, the babies had mental conditions/problems.

 

[DM Cross]

The word here is responsibility. If both people choose to have sex, they are choosing to take the risk of becoming pregenant. If they do get pregenant, they are responsible for that action, that consequence. Meaning they both are now charged with the life of another. And they should treat that life with respect, as both of their parents should have treated their lives, regardless of whether or not they were both accidental.

Don't have sex if you can't handle the possibility of having a child. It sounds parental and cliched, but it's damned true. The world is too obsessed with self-satisfaction these days. Resonsibility is dying because people are immature and frankly; Stupid.

That's all.

 

[Newbwc3]

I agree with what Seth said.

 

[esb]

True, but MANY don't realize that, or accept that.

What about when they simply can't support it? Economically, they have no house, not enough for food, special treatment (If it has a condition) etc. Should they give it for adoption? Wouldn't they suffer more (not physically... maybe) but emotionally? Be mad at the world?

 

[DM Cross]

True, but MANY don't realize that, or accept that.

What about when they simply can't support it? Economically, they have no house, not enough for food, special treatment (If it has a condition) etc. Should they give it for adoption? Wouldn't they suffer more (not physically... maybe) but emotionally? Be mad at the world?

Shouldn't be having sex then. That's the deal. Can't afford the consequences? Then you can't afford the pleasure.

 

[sqrage]

Shouldn't be having sex then. That's the deal. Can't afford the consequences? Then you can't afford the pleasure.

That's what condoms are for!

Now if you aren't responsible enough to use one, or to learn how to use one properly, then you shouldn't have sex.

 

[esb]

What if the condom rips? Or someone lies("I'm on the pill")? Or Rape?

 

[sqrage]

>>What if the condom rips?

The company's fault. Or else your fault for misusing it, which is why I said learn to use it correctly.

>>Or someone lies("I'm on the pill")?

That goes with "responsible enough to use it".

 

[esb]

But, then if she lies and the guy doesn't know, and she wants to keep the baby (Maybe just for child support or to keep him close) Should the father stay with her and give her money (If laws wasn't an object/obstacle/etc.)?

 

[DM Cross]

Or someone lies("I'm on the pill")? Or Rape?

In the event of liars, the responsibility is still on both you. You should be responsible enough to trust those you're having sex with. If you can't trust them 100% or you do and they're lying, then you're obviously a bad judge of character or too concerned with getting laid to think straight. Thus, we have consequences.

As for rape, in my first post in this thread, I stated that my opinion is in the event of both parties willing to commit the act. I'm not even going to be discussing the terms of rape because that has nothing to do with the original topic, really.

As a matter of fact, neither does this conversation because we're not talking about whether abortion is right or wrong, we're supposed to be debating if men have an equal say in the abortion of their child. I've begun to notice that no one seems to be willing to stick to that topic and as such, I plan on closing this thread due to massive off-topic conversation if it does not change.

That's what condoms are for!

Now if you aren't responsible enough to use one, or to learn how to use one properly, then you shouldn't have sex.

Wrong. Condoms are not an excuse or an easy way out. Don't have sex at all if you're not ready for the possibility of a child. Even with birth control and condoms, there is always a chance, albeit small. Sex = children should be the mindset. If people thought about it like that, we'd probably have a lot less accidental conceptions.

Notice I say conceptions, not births. This is, after all, somewhat related to abortion...

 

[esb]

So... the way you put it abortion shouldn't be allowed. Not even if either side (Mother or Father) decide to do it. Yet, not everyone thinks like you (sadly?) and they decide to abort. If the mother wants to abort, yet the father wants to keep the kid, shouldn't he be able to keep it? Ignoring the fact that they were supposed to be responsible enough to have sex to begin with, it already happened (the kid).

 

[DM Cross]

You're failing to realize that there is no "middle ground" in my thinking. If you're having sex, you're giving up the right to abort by realizing you are responsible for what you risk creating. End of story. Game over. Do not pass Go. Do not collect 200 dollars.

I openly admit I'm sexually active. If I were to concieve a child, I would not allow abortion of it because that is my child, that is my consequence. I may try to prevent it, via condoms and various means of birth control, but under no circumstances does this mean I can get a girl pregenant and turn around to say "Oh. Whoops. Well, let me clean up my mess and relieve myself of everything I did."

There's a saying.

You dug your grave, now lie in it.

You created your child, now deal with it.

Both parties are responsible. Accept that and move on with life as best you can. Again; Game over.

 

[MeRcChRiS]

End of story. Game over. Do not pass Go. Do not collect 200 dollars.

lols

Yeah, If you are going to go on and have sex, you take the consequences that follow your actions. In no way do condoms or birth control pills save you 100%, at all. If you have sex you must think before doing it as it it your responsibility to be prepared to what comes later in the future.

^ + abortion = wtf? Don't. GG.