Death penalty?

[phyrex1an]

The Death Penalty is Capital PUNISHMENT - not Capital Deterrent. Its main purpose is punish serious offenders - not deter.

Yea I know that (And now I also know what deter meens *dictonary*).
But the single most common reason I have heard to support death penelty is:
"It is so good becuse we have less crimes becuse of it"
Well less crimes that we should have if we didnt have it maybe, that is impossible to know. But not less crimes than others, on the paper. As sud says you cannot be sure without taking all numbers in calulation but with enought examples (7 isnt) we have a quit accurate number. Someone whant do do some math?


<Statistics, in my eyes, are almost useless for this topic because they take into <no account like economic situations, racial profiling of the target demographics, <or other hidden factors. You can't base your results simply on the end <numbers, you have to base it on whether or not it's needed to control the <population that you are dealing with.

I know that to.
<Also it may be other resons for the high murder rate. I dont know.

But as far as I know the whole system of justice is built on statistics or chance calulation.
How big is the chance that he was on the place on the crime and didnt do it?
He had blood on his hands, how big is the chance that he tried to help the victim or tried to killed the victim?

The reason I am againts death penelty isnt that it doesnt have the right effects (less crime or kill the bastards whatever) it is becuse you can NEVER be 100% sure who did it.
Yea we have a tape that proves it, how hard is it to fake a tape?
10 people saw it, people are rotten give them enough cash...
He have conffesed (?), to protect his wife and 2 children from the maffia who threat to kill them elseway.

Well the chanse that someone that have conffesed and is on tape is not guilty is VERY small but how may has been executed so fare in mordern time?
10 000? A error margin on 0.001% and we have 10 people killed wihout any reson. Is that justice? A lifetime prison punishemt can be aborted a death punishment cannot.

 

[DM Cross]

Sud, I have no idea what you're talking about, because my way doesn't take up tax dollars, either, just the money of the offender. If it's only a money problem, anyway.

Phyrex, bull. You teach the kids that "you give back what you take". So no, it's not "hey, you touched my girl, I'm going to kill you". You apparently didn't grasp my concept at all, so don't talk about it like you do

Sorry I didn't explain it better. But, eh, dems da breaks, man.

 

[Sud]

Imprisonment (not death penalty) takes tax dollars (not your way).

Your way (being death penalty) is flawed in that it doesn't provide any kind of benefit or restitution to the victim or society, thus, useless. Yeah, you killed the killer, but that's not bringing the dead person back, and since that murder victim was the primary caregiver of their family, what are you going to do now?

My way could be looked at as legalized slavery - if you lose your right to freedom, you become a slave to the state. Your toils go toward repairing, as far as can be possibly done, the actions that you comitted. Death is too easy a way out.

 

[DM Cross]

You know, if I could, I would bring people back. But I can't. What should I do about it, cry?

Screw that.

Justification is the next best thing.

However, yes, your way deffinately works just as well, and maybe a little better since it's giving a lot more back then simple satisfaction of a balance made.

In short, yes, I agree with Sud's way if my own were never to be, but I do not change my opinion that my stated way is the best way.

-Edit-

HAHAHA, Rex, I noticed something with your "proof".

You're comparing New York to Maine? Are you kidding me? The population doesn't even add up, let alone the crime records. Most of the states without a death penalty also seemed to be states with a reputation of being quiet nice towns. Way to use numbers to your advantage.

 

[AceHart]

[off topic]

> If you lose your right to freedom, you become a slave to the state. (*)

Welcome to the club.
That's what 6+ billion people live every day.




(*) taken out of original context.

 

[SD_Ryoko]

Some people never learn. People go to jail for serious crimes, then do it again when they get out. Particularly rapists and child molesters.

So what you gonna do? Gotta do something.

Send them all away to an island, letting them eventually form their own colony and grow into a country?

Tried that.

Keep in jail forever? Costs too much money, and whats the point. Life in jail isn't really a life anyway.

Fry em? Cost effective, solves the problem, no repeat offense. Nice.

Alexander, your 'eye for an eye' theory doesn't work. How about crimes of passion?

Man married for years with kids, comes home and walks in on some dude banging his wife? I'd kill him too. Prolly her and him.

Eye for an eye then the death penalty? How about, revive her magically. Make her watch while he bangs some chick, then kill him.

No wait, she was banging first, so she doesn't even care. There will never ever be justice in this situation. And it just doesn't work out logically.

 

[Sud]

Ryoko wants to drown them in cologne

 

[DM Cross]

Alexander, your 'eye for an eye' theory doesn't work. How about crimes of passion?

Man married for years with kids, comes home and walks in on some dude banging his wife? I'd kill him too. Prolly her and him.

Eye for an eye then the death penalty? How about, revive her magically. Make her watch while he bangs some chick, then kill him.

No wait, she was banging first, so she doesn't even care. There will never ever be justice in this situation. And it just doesn't work out logically.

Want to know the punishment?

Take the guy who she's cheating with.

Stick him in the room with a rabid queer bouncer.

For the woman?

Same thing, EXCEPT! The bouncer's straight, wearing a porcupine needle covered condom.

See her cheat again >D HAHAHAHAHA!

 

[phyrex1an]

HAHAHA, Rex, I noticed something with your "proof".

You're comparing New York to Maine? Are you kidding me? The population doesn't even add up, let alone the crime records. Most of the states without a death penalty also seemed to be states with a reputation of being quiet nice towns. Way to use numbers to your advantage.

I thinks Rex meens Phyrex wich meen phyrex1an so I answer that.

As I said it was randomized (as good as a human can randomize). And I actualy have no idea on wich states that is 'good' or 'bad'. Of course I know that it lives alot of people in NY but I have no idea about Maine. For me it could be 100 or 10 000 000.

And when did I say it was a proof it is only 'facts' wich is way from proof.

Still I wating to someone to add all those states and numbers togheter so there is a little better wiew of things.


We should have a lesson somewhere on how to 'read' statistics. Any one that is good at that? Did you know that almost every human have more legs than the avarange? That is a statistic proof. If you doesnt watch out you can be realy tricked . (Alexander and Sud is the only one that have commented the numbers, and both have a point. Statistics is almost to no use here, why the * did I bring those here, and as Alexander says I have no idea on the actualy conditions in those stats so I cant compare them at all.)

This is what I know about the USA:
Next greates on the living standard grade. After Luxemburg.
Biggest economi in the world.
Somewhere about the 5 biggest populotion in the world.
Sweden exports most of our production to the US.
Did not signt the Kyoto protocoll
(pff now this is going to be hard, I cant come up with much more.)
(Blabla all wars from Feedom Wars (dont know the right name so that is a guess) to WW2 blabla)


You want punishments? Try all old torture methods. Who dont want to here there bones crack?

 

[MasterOfABCs]

Wow this has gona on for a lot longer than i thought. alexander i dont quite think that would work, becuse cheating isnt a crime. ive read all these posts, and i must say i like suds idea, it works of thier "debt" to society, they no logner have freedom, or a "life" governmental slavery would be the best way to deal with it.

 

[DM Cross]

Rexxar:

Yeah, but we already stated: Old torture would cost us (the sweet and kind, loving tax payers of America) more money then if we killed them/put them to work.

Also, about your stats, I thought YOU chose those states out of purpose, which means you have some biased-as-all-heck numbers! But nevermind that, then. You'd have to look at all of America, really, to get a good idea about if it "increases" crime.

MasterofPuppets:

I'm saying, if you WERE to punish people for it, that's a way to do it.

No one ever stated it was a crime.

But hey, it's justifying!

*Cough* Sorry I meant "satisfying".

 

[MasterOfABCs]

well looks like tomorrow debate is going to be a interesting one....


Well i kinda got selceted to be one of three kids in my class who have to do 2 debtes . so whats you guys views on religion in school? feel free to let your vocab loose now.

 

[DM Cross]

Religion in school, ANY religion, should not be allowed. At all, EXCEPT for one special circumstance. A religious based private school. (Christian schools, Jewish schools, etc. etc.) Even still, they shouldn't be brainwashed like Rin, into thinking that they are absolutely right and everyone around them saying otherwise is going to Hell.

They should, however, be taught that they BELIEVE everyone around them is going to Hell, but they MAY be wrong

 

[MasterOfABCs]

what about history classes, were in order to explian the unit/topic in-depth the teacher needs to explian a regiloin in depth?

 

[DM Cross]

That's the history of the religion. That's how it develops. History itself teaches us that Religion, whether it be Wiccan, Christian, Jewish, it's all bullshit.

Thus, there's probably not too much religion in history anyway.

 

[phyrex1an]

Death Penelty:
Not much to say anymore.... But comment my messed up numbers
<biased-as-all-heck no idea what that meens... rigged? Naa that was "random". Just 7 vaules is to few but i was lazy. I was actualy quind of dissaponted that I didnt find a low murder/capita with death penely that was why I added North Dakota... and reliced that there was a "executed since 1979" so then I was 'forced' to mention that to... And look throug all my states agoin to find if there was more 0 on the "executed since 1979" and it was NY to... So NY can be (with only my numbers, no other factors) a place where a non death penelty (No executions in 26 years is almost as death penelty doesnt exist) isnt 'good'.
But again I am against death penelty no matter what the numbers tell me.



Religon:
Hmm, yea that is actualy a hard question. IF you have religon in school do NOT just have one. We had the 3-4 biggest reilgons and I dont remember the names of anyone (Christian-Jewish-???-???, is jewish at that list?) so I dont realy feel affected at all. Actualy the subject(in sweden) should be renamed to 'How different peole look at life/death and simular stuff'. Under the same class we looked at Platos world view and all other big 'thinker's look at life. Religon is a somewhat unneded subject, I think that it should be optional if someone maybe wants to know something about other cultures but to just studie the religon that is present in the county is wrong, it is like only the biggest party was mentioned in TV (or in any media and school) before an election or something.

That was one of the best classes to sleep on to since our teacher was a little :nuts: . *Hello everyone* *Turns around to whiteboard* *starts writening stuff* - One hour later * *Finish writing* *Turn back to class* *Goodbye everyone*. I think 1/2 of our class got the highest or second highest grade (out of 3). And since I not going to talk about the swedish grading system (wich even the teachers doesnt understand) my post about the topic ends here.


Rofl phyrex1an --> Phyrex --> Rex --> Rexxar and that in one thread! And all steps (but the last) is totaly logical. Hey I am the coolest caracter in WcIII. I am going to pawn you all...



-edit-
Back to the death penelty
Until now we only talked about US, or that is the only county mentioned.
In US it is only those 'violence against people' that can give a death penelty.
But what about those countries where your belefes and political stands can get you killed (by gouverment)? Dont just think 'peaole who wants freedom gets killed in a 'closed' county' think about the opposite, people in our 'open' contries that wants a more 'closed' envoriment is it right to kill them? I dont think there is any 'open' county that have laws like that but 'IF'. Is it 'right' to kill someone for there thoughts? Every one that likes yellow is executed.

 

[sqrage]

Someone beat me to it.



No offense, but you're an idiot.

Think about it. We have the death penalty, which is worse than torture. Yet people still commit murder.

how is sudden death worse when you dont go through pain except like what 2 seconds

 

[Sargon]

Because...you don't live. Duh.

Besides, people kill people in countries that have torture.

 

[Myzteryz]

Throughout my whole life I learned one thing about religion teaching...

You don't need to accept the ideas but you need to learn them.
Being educated means knowing a lot about different subjects and later in life, it will help you conduct a education conversation with someone.

Just learn about it, you don't need to believe it..

Its like learning about scientific theories about human evolution.
Some people don't believe in that and they think otherwise. AND thats OK!
Just knowing that will help you later in life to carry out a smart conversation..

 

[Mark YBARBO]

you tell em

S_D Ryoko you are the only one who makes sense, some people need to face the facts. I say ride a wheelie over their sick heads.