DotA Troops v1.00

[dragonhord]

If its any consolation, I believe the ideal of mercs in dota is a wonderous idea... Depending on how thoroughly you did it... And from what ive heard (I do appologise but i have not tested your map) you havent put any of the effort needed... If you continue with the idea then I believe you could make a fantastic map, but, I highly doubt that it will be anywhere near the popularity level dota has achieved... And your new idea Defense of Lordaeron... It sounds like the old idea with more mercs... Ive been working on my AoS for two years now and its still not better than dota according to a lot of people. Then again I have had quite a few responses of it being better than dota, and quite a few of it being a copy of dota and them saying its just as good but they would rather play the original... Its not easy to top dota...

 

[worldofDeath]

If its any consolation, I believe the ideal of mercs in dota is a wonderous idea... Depending on how thoroughly you did it... And from what ive heard (I do appologise but i have not tested your map) you havent put any of the effort needed... If you continue with the idea then I believe you could make a fantastic map, but, I highly doubt that it will be anywhere near the popularity level dota has achieved... And your new idea Defense of Lordaeron... It sounds like the old idea with more mercs... Ive been working on my AoS for two years now and its still not better than dota according to a lot of people. Then again I have had quite a few responses of it being better than dota, and quite a few of it being a copy of dota and them saying its just as good but they would rather play the original... Its not easy to top dota...

Dota this dota that. If you say crap like near the popularity level of dota has achieved. Then there will be none? Im pretty sure alot of you are pissed off of dota becuse:

1. You mad at them ur map you made isnt as good as dota
2. you suck at dota
3. Hate that ice frog took all the spells from other peopl
4. Hate that ice frog took that last level of Tft and made a game that made alot of the game popular
5. Just complety hate that some one made a better map then you


And what is this two year AoS that you have been working on. I have never even seen a map by you plez show and tell! So far every one else thinks dota is still the best dam game out there. And hell i anit going to lie it is. And hell this is about helping some one not telling them there game sucks. And talking about how some one made a game as good as dota.
He dint ask what you where trying to do and what it was. Hes asking YOUR help to help him make his map better.

And people if you have not noticed it. Dota is not a gern of its own it is still in the cat. OF AN AoS plez, help the kid stop telling him it sucks. This shit happend to my friend and he gave it up turned around and made a great ass td. Not thanks to nagitive remarks from people about how crappy a game is that has only one version on it.

Ps: i just want to make it clear dota is its own game Hosk is its own game and every one is its own game. Theres always the chance to play another game. And just bec a map looks like Dota. Dosnt mean it was to copy dota it was to copy the gern of an AOS... And hell we all know that icefrog worked on this atleast a copply good years. And hell it will just take alot of testing and other things to get the job done.

 

[dragonhord]

For one thing... I offered my EXACT opinion on his map... What would make it worse/better and what I thought of his new idea... So dont tell me im not on this part... Secondly your list...

1. You mad at them ur map you made isnt as good as dota
2. you suck at dota
3. Hate that ice frog took all the spells from other peopl
4. Hate that ice frog took that last level of Tft and made a game that made alot of the game popular
5. Just complety hate that some one made a better map then you

1. Ive had plenty of comments that my map is AS good if not BETTER than dota... Ive also had plenty that say its just a copy... NO ONE says its worse... But I believe "Its just a copy" is a synonym . 2. Im very good at dota, and I participate in cal games.. No I havent won any, but yes I get fairly far, and do very well.. 3. Thats what people put these spells up for... If he took advantage of that thats fine... I would like if he would give credit for the spells he took though... 4. His idea was genious, and I compliment him for that... Hes one smart cookie... 5. Already went of on this part...

And people if you have not noticed it. Dota is not a gern of its own it is still in the cat. OF AN AoS plez, help the kid stop telling him it sucks. This shit happend to my friend and he gave it up turned around and made a great ass td. Not thanks to nagitive remarks from people about how crappy a game is that has only one version on it.

Not NECESSARILY true... Many great things are fueled through peoples desires to show others that they can do something... If your friend took all these negative remarks, and used them to drive his desire to make his incredible td... then what? What could you say about that now? He probably did it to prove himself... Saying to everyone that he doesnt suck at map making... And there you go, he proved it... Proved everyone of them wrong...

 

[johnnyfire]

If you continue with the idea then I believe you could make a fantastic map, but, I highly doubt that it will be anywhere near the popularity level dota has achieved...

seriously, i don't care if my map only has 20 people play it ever... its not popularity i want, what i really want is a good map in my spare time that people wouldnt consider a waste of time playing... i want to see what, how, and how much i need to improve my mapmaking and triggering skills to do that

also i have started work on heroes... those take forever, accounting to spells and balancing :banghead: , so thats why i didn't include them in this version
damn... those poll results show i need to work on it a lot

 

[chovynz]

If you'll excuse this Johnny...

DotA Troops v1.00  	April 25th, 2007 11:58 AM  	johnnyfire  	you do have a point, [B]and i will persist[/B]

Guys. This is what I'm talking about. I fully believe that johnny will come up with great maps. Not just this one when it's done, but others once he gets there with the coding.

@Johnny: Because of the way you've responded to my challenges, You've got my support. What can I help you with? Do you want me to run down the problems I found in the map?

 

[johnnyfire]

hell yeah... i want to know everything wrong with the map so then i can stop looking at this and start working on it

 

[chovynz]

Everything I say here is my opinion and can be safely ignored. Including this disclaimer.

1) Ok first off, change the terrain. If you don't, people will always compare it to DotA because the terrain is the signature Dota terrain. The base locations are the same. The tileset is the same, the Mana pools set in the little coves behind the tree/throne are the same. etc...

2) The help quests need some attention. You have two -ap -arem sections that say they do different things, but the have the same commands.

3) I don't like the mercs. They seem to be boring.

4) The items... hmmm. I don't ...The selection doesn't make much difference on the gameplay. I can play with a hero and win without ever touching the items. Same with the mercs.

5) The orange dots on the map. When you go there ... are they leveling spots? Cause if they are, I suggest you take off the orange dots and make them not visible on the minimap.

There's lots more that needs to be worked on. One of the best things I have ever come across in maps is a degree of randomness. Never knowing whats around the corner. On edge and alert. One of the reasons why I don't like Dota is the repetitive nature of it. 5 out of 6 games, people pick the same heros. If they play random, they get the same items time and time again. The same paths, against teh same heros, with the same items gets very boring very quickly.

I think that's actually what the basic problem with your map is. It's so much like Dota we don't notice the differences. I'm all for this type of gameplay, but your changes are too...miniscule to feel, to see the difference. The terrain has a huge impact on what people feel and play in a game, and your terrain is still Dota through and through. I'm trying to think up ways of making it different, but honestly I think... the terrain is a biggie.

 

[johnnyfire]

now thats what im talking about... real, helpful criticism

 

[worldofDeath]

>Not good at all, this map needs to be deleted.>

Dont say that every map has a chance to be good!

 

[johnnyfire]

by deleted i mean start over from scratch

 

[chovynz]

This map is better than the original DotA because of the fact that you can buy mercs to help in pushes, the mercenaries also help the losing team defend itself better (eg. a push is done by sentinel, scourge players respond by using mercs close to base, but sentinal players have to go all the way back to their base to get their mercenaries) and help in pushes (eg. all players use mercs in a mid push). I am just testing the concept right now but i need to test balacing and if its fun at all. So please tell me everything thats wrong with the map, but dont just say its bad

Just had a thought. Dota Pushes often don't need help. Once heros are leveled up to a certain point the balance tips in favour very quickly, and unless something drastic occures the inevitable happens. I think adding mercs to the gameplay of Dota (which is what you've done with this map - all other diferences aside) only feeds the heros rather than helping the pushes. Make sense?

 

[worldofDeath]

Well what if you make it where you dont get gold nor exp from them?

 

[dragonhord]

Then they are a waste of map space and memory, mercs dont really do anything if you think about it... They wouldnt feed in this case, but they wouldnt do anything either... Just a waste of X gold...

 

[Psiblade94122]

but if mercs are used at the right time then they can make a differnce (like in the map Eota: twilight (eve of the apocalipse))

Then again, the bounuses for items in that map arent as great as dota... so that might pose a problem

 

[worldofDeath]

Then they are a waste of map space and memory, mercs dont really do anything if you think about it... They wouldnt feed in this case, but they wouldnt do anything either... Just a waste of X gold...

But they can get gold from the real creaps that they kill. And they can push very good. I think mercs are a good idear. But i would make them more where you buy them in one of the lanes. And after that they go on there on by there own down the lanes. So you woulnt control them and you would get kills from them.
This idear was taken from Chaz32621 as he is going to inport this into his map. Hes thought of this idear for a long time.

Your friendly worldofDeath..

 

[unstable]

I think the mercs have too much potential of being imbalanced. Big pushes with heroes that have strong auras or area healing items would allow a team to basically win the game always. Also, using the mercs would yield a player too much gold from kills.

I like worldofDeath's idea of purchasing creeps but not being able to control them. (Eg creates a creep for either the sentinel or scourge). But you shouldn't get kills or money from them, they should solely be used to help the team. Also there should be a large cooldown to stop a team from creating mass waves of mercs to push and win too easily.

That being said, just play around with the editor and try to balance your ideas as much as possible. I think too many of the newer-mapmakers want to edit and make their own dota. Try be original, maybe start from scratch or start with the template but slowly change everything as you get better.

 

[chovynz]

Here's an idea related to the above.

Why not make mercs just like creeps. Their kills dont give you gold. You dont controll the mercs. Here's a difference. You can choose what lane they go on. either through 3 separate buildings on each lane (that is, if you're going to keep the map Dota Style) or you can control them while they are in your base. Once they move past a certain point they pick the nearest lane and go up that.

What do you think about that idea?

 

[johnnyfire]

Make the mercs just like the creeps? interesting? but with my skills at triggering i could only make them controllable or uncontrollable, but its worth trying out, ill test it

 

[worldofDeath]

Here's an idea related to the above.

Why not make mercs just like creeps. Their kills dont give you gold. You dont controll the mercs. Here's a difference. You can choose what lane they go on. either through 3 separate buildings on each lane (that is, if you're going to keep the map Dota Style) or you can control them while they are in your base. Once they move past a certain point they pick the nearest lane and go up that.

What do you think about that idea?

I just said that on my last post....

 

[johnnyfire]

Ive decided tomake the map a defense of Khaz Modan with a modified Dalaran ruins tileset. For mercs i have it so that you buy units for the comp for a specific lane, but i'm thinking of also making 2 "bodyguard" mercs available. sound like a good direction?