Homosexuality: A social decision or a physical instinct?

[nabbig2]

OMG, just no I don't want hear that!

One Question: Would you do it?
and
btw: You don't think it harm them Psychical and even theirs body? and Well its not naturally for a animal have sex with a human for real!

Okay, I won't.

Would I do it? No. I never have engaged in sexual behaviors with my pets, nor will I ever. The reason why I argue is that from a subjective view, there simply is nothing wrong with bestiality.


"btw: You don't think it harm them Psychical and even theirs body? and Well its not naturally for a animal have sex with a human for real!"

-No, I do not. Why? Because there is simply no evidence that having sex with an animal harms it! It has never ben proved to harm them physically or mentally.

And what do you mean it is not "natural"? Please elaborate. I don't find that -because somebody's sexual orientation is not normal to you, therefore it is wrong-is a very compelling argument.

EDIT: I see your post now CatCat.

I see. Well, since there is no reason that bestiality harms either party, and at least the human being enjoys it, there is simply no philosophical or logical argument that bestiality is wrong. In fact, you do look at bestiality merely as a taboo, because you have literally no arguments as to why bestiality is wrong.

When pets mount their owners, they are clearly doing it conscious and with their own will. Arguing whether or not animals have the capacity to reason will be pointless-the fact is, they are willingfully having sex. I don't see why animals should not be compared to humans on a sexual level-in fact, Homo Sapiens is in fact an animal. If bestiality is enjoyable to people and possibly animals, and no harm comes out of it, I don't see anything wrong with it.

Well, I'm not sure what kind of reasoning you want. I have thoroughly explained how bestiality is a clearly not a damaging act, and that it is enjoyable by people, and in my opinion that is more than enough for justifying bestiality.

What facts could you possibly want? How about you show me some facts if you want to prove that it is a damaging act. If you really want another opinion, in case you still think that intuition is a fallacy, here you go:

http://www.opposingviews.com/articl...-society-shouldn-t-rush-to-condemn-bestiality

 

[FireCat]

there simply is nothing wrong with bestiality..

It is wrong and always be wrong with bestiality.

-No, I do not. Why? Because there is simply no evidence that having sex with an animal harms it! It has never ben proved to harm them physically or mentally...

Why even need to prove it or think if it does harm them or not! btw: I am sure it does.

And what do you mean it is not "natural"? Please elaborate. I don't find that -because somebody's sexual orientation is not normal to you, therefore it is wrong-is a very compelling argument.

You can't say its natural for a animal have sex with a human or on the contrary..

 

[nabbig2]

It is wrong and always be wrong with bestiality.

Why even need to prove it or think if it does harm them or not! btw: I am sure it does.

You can't say its natural for a animal have sex with a human or on the contrary..

FireCat, while I appreciate your partaking in this discussion, I'm afraid I can no longer take you seriously. Your arguments have no reason or facts to back them up. You merely act based off of your emotion. I don't mean to offend you in anyway FireCat, but I simply can not take your arguments seriously anymore.

 

[CatCat]

You are right there is nothing wrong with bestiality, I never said It was though.
what I do appose is your reasons for you knowing what animals wanted.

On top of that I was quite irritated when you compared bestiality and pedophilia with homosexuality. I would not have been irritated if you compared it with incest because that would have been more comparable.

After that a few remarks escalated into a minor flame war. Where I then just gave up.

But on a side note: could we please make a different thread for this topic?

 

[nabbig2]

You are right there is nothing wrong with bestiality, I never said It was though.
what I do appose is your reasons for you knowing what animals wanted.

On top of that I was quite irritated when you compared bestiality and pedophilia with homosexuality. I would not have been irritated if you compared it with incest because that would have been more comparable.

After that a few remarks escalated into a minor flame war. Where I then just gave up.

But on a side note: could we please make a different thread for this topic?

I see. But the fact is that I never once said that I know exactly what animals want. I did state that animals engaged in sexual activity, and since this is a totally voluntary action which is not pressured by any being, then the animal clearly wants to do it, and does it. It's what the animal wants-this is simply irrefutable.

Now, there are cases where the animal may not necessarily be crazy about having sex with a human, but you have provided no evidence that animal do not enjoy bestiality.

"On top of that I was quite irritated when you compared bestiality and pedophilia with homosexuality. I would not have been irritated if you compared it with incest because that would have been more comparable. "
-The reason why I compared them is that they are all forms of sexuality-why not compare them? I don't get why bestiality is any more like incest than it is to pedophilia and homosexuality. Again, they are all sexual orientations-incest is having sexual relations with a family member-which in fact has absoutely nothing to do with bestiality.

I did not mean to irritate or harass you, sorry if I did. I do get very into my arguments and I am determined to prove my point, and I try my best to do it without offending anybody. EDIT: I guess I can start the thread, see you there CatCat.

 

[FireCat]

FireCat, while I appreciate your partaking in this discussion, I'm afraid I can no longer take you seriously. Your arguments have no reason or facts to back them up. You merely act based off of your emotion. I don't mean to offend you in anyway FireCat, but I simply can not take your arguments seriously anymore.

Really, why you can't take it seriously when its true what I say. Sure it based on my emotion and this is wrong. Why even need have any fact or even a back it up?! That I don't understend why even need to have it?

 

[Zakyath]

Really, why you can take that seriously when its true what I say. Sure it based on my emotion and this is wrong. Why even need have any fact or even a back it up?! That I don't understend why even need to have it?

Give us one reason why your opinions are better, more correct and superior everyone else's. I think we'd all be glad to hear this.

nabbig2: It's an quite interesting discussion, I've thought of alike things. But I've thought in another direction (if I can put it that way). I've wondered why it's okay to label the attraction to children and animals as diseases, when it's told "wrong" by society today to tell someone who's attracted to people of the same gender as ill.
(I do not see homosexuality as a disease, though)

oh, and... bestiality! I personally think it should be illegal, not because I see it as "wrong", but since it would be too hard to judge what is considered rape, and that animals won't be able to tell anyone they've been raped. I don't doubt that you are correct when you say that there is no proof they can be harmed, and that some enjoy sex with humans, but is there any proof that sex never can harm an animal? And I'm positive you don't believe that every animal always want to have sex with humans. Therefore I think that bestiality should remain illegal, since the risk that animals are abused is far too high.

I don't think that you comparisons with hunting and slaughter are appropriate (not the right word probably, but the closest I could find. You know what I mean.) You have no idea what we think about those laws, and therefore they have nothing to do with this. Maybe we think that those laws deserve to be changed too. It's a different debate, though.

 

[nabbig2]

Give us one reason why your opinions are better, more correct and superior everyone else's. I think we'd all be glad to hear this.

nabbig2: It's an quite interesting discussion, I've thought of alike things. But I've thought in another direction (if I can put it that way). I've wondered why it's okay to label the attraction to children and animals as diseases, when it's told "wrong" by society today to tell someone who's attracted to people of the same gender as ill.
(I do not see homosexuality as a disease, though)

oh, and... bestiality! I personally think it should be illegal, not because I see it as "wrong", but since it would be too hard to judge what is considered rape, and that animals won't be able to tell anyone they've been raped. I don't doubt that you are correct when you say that there is no proof they can be harmed, and that some enjoy sex with humans, but is there any proof that sex never can harm an animal? And I'm positive you don't believe that every animal always want to have sex with humans. Therefore I think that bestiality should remain illegal, since the risk that animals are abused is far too high.

I don't think that you comparisons with hunting and slaughter are appropriate (not the right word probably, but the closest I could find. You know what I mean.) You have no idea what we think about those laws, and therefore they have nothing to do with this. Maybe we think that those laws deserve to be changed too. It's a different debate, though.

I understand you concern for the well being of the animal, and I do care about the animal as well. But do you realize that sexual abuse is very common between men and women in households as well? And that many women do not reach out for help? So why don't we ban marriage altogether? Everything has a risk involved.

"You have no idea what we think about those laws, and therefore they have nothing to do with this"

Fallacious logic right here. Even if I didn't have an idea, that doesn't mean that they have nothing to do with eachother. You also said that animals won't be able to tell anyone they've been raped, which clearly shows that yo show concern for animals.
They have very much to do with each other. If you are concerned for the well being of an animal, then why should killing animals at all be legal? Sexual abusing animals is no worse than preparing them for the slaughter.


"but is there any proof that sex never can harm an animal?"

Certainly not, and this does not add any weight to your argument. I never, ever said that bestiality could never hurt an animal; in fact I have repeatedly stated otherwise. I know that bestiality can cause harm to an animal, but a man and a woman having sex can cause just as much harm. So do you believe that we should stop sex altogether, simply because there are risks involved?

 

[FireCat]

Give us one reason why your opinions are better, more correct and superior everyone else's. I think we'd all be glad to hear this..

its simple, because I care about animals, OMG lawl superior? because I say its wrong to abuse animals and its wrong to even think have sex with them.. thats a bit ridiculous to say Iam superior everyone else's because of that. "No one is superior over other" But its wrong whatsoever!

tell me: Animals have any opinions? have or not have sex with a human?

 

[Seb!]

tell me: Animals have any opinions? have or not have sex with a human?

To tell you the truth, I don't think most of them care what species they mate with. As many animal rights organizations "cautiously support" bestiality, the thoughts of the animals, at least in your argument, are irrelevant.

You don't really know, or care, what the animal thinks. You would just as soon consume and digest slaughtered animal flesh as you would post about your alleged care for an animal's feelings.

Let's put it this way: an animal would rather have sex with you than be eaten by you. Bestiality probably just goes against one of the many irrational taboos that your mind has.

 

[nabbig2]

Let's put it this way: an animal would rather have sex with you than be eaten by you. Bestiality probably just goes against one of the many irrational taboos that your mind has.

This quote I shall like to highlight from Seb!; he has put into words an important point that I have been trying to get through in my past couple posts or so.

 

[Zakyath]

its simple, because I care about animals, OMG lawl superior? because I say its wrong to abuse animals and its wrong to even think have sex with them.. thats a bit ridiculous to say Iam superior everyone else's because of that. "No one is superior over other" But its wrong whatsoever!

tell me: Animals have any opinions? have or not have sex with a human?

Yes. Superior. You seem to think that your opinions are better than our opinions. No, that's not why I said it. I said it because your arguments sound kinda like this: "Oh my god, that is sick, i'm not going to tell you why it's sick; just because i think it's sick, you should think it's sick too, and if you don't think it's sick, you're also sick!" And that gives me the impression that you don't really give a damn what other people think, and just rely on your own opinions as facts.

 

[FireCat]

You don't really know, or care, what the animal thinks.
Let's put it this way: an animal would rather have sex with you than be eaten by you. Bestiality probably just goes against one of the many irrational taboos that your mind has.

you can't say.. I dont know or care what animals thinks.. when I had many animals more then you had, if you had a animal even.. so really! and I dont agree they would have sex.. but sure they would not be eaten of us human


@Zakyath that is sick.. ! Enough said
no one can change my mind about that and facts for what?

 

[nabbig2]

Yes. Superior. You seem to think that your opinions are better than our opinions. No, that's not why I said it. I said it because your arguments sound kinda like this: "Oh my god, that is sick, i'm not going to tell you why it's sick; just because i think it's sick, you should think it's sick too, and if you don't think it's sick, you're also sick!" And that gives me the impression that you don't really give a damn what other people think, and just rely on your own opinions as facts.

I agree with what Zakyath has to say here. In fact, I don't mean to be disrespectful to FireCat, but I have chosen not to reply to his arguments in this thread; this might be the best idea for you too, Zakyath.

 

[Zakyath]

>@Zakyath that is sick.. ! Enough said
no one can change my mind about that and facts for what?

Yes, we quite understood that is your opinion. And I accept that is your opinion. Now tell me why is that your opinion? Why is it sick? Let's put the fact that it's abuse to the side.

nabbig, I'm having one last try

 

[nabbig2]

Lol alright then, good luck.:shades:

 

[FireCat]

Yes, we quite understood that is your opinion. And I accept that is your opinion. Now tell me why is that your opinion? Why is it sick?

Its sick because you force something in a animal thats not belong there Thats sick... It would be the same if someone force you something in you!

and
1. Animals can't say what they think about this.
2. Animals can't say no.
3. Animals be forced nothing else.
4. Is not naturally for a animal and to a human
5. Why even think a human is superior over animals?!
6. Animals have feelings
7. Nothing wrong give animals some humanity instead of cruelty "and sex with a animal is cruelty
the list can go on and on.

 

[Zakyath]

Okay, so you see this as sick as in the terms of rape, pretty much? You're making progress, at last I can see that you actually have a reason to think as you do.

But as nabbig said, there are times when the animals mount the human, and then, wouldn't we have to cross 1, 2, 3, 6, and 7? I'm not quite sure what the human superior to animals have to do with this. So you're main argument that's left, is that it's unnatural, since different species shouldn't have sex? But if they both enjoy it, is it really that wrong?

 

[esb]

Am I in the wrong thread? Or is beastiality the new Homosexuality.
Or maybe you guys are completely off...

 

[Genkora]

I think that almost everything that there is a debate about whether or not it should be legal, should in fact be legal (doesn't apply to everything of course). Take the gay marriage issue for example. If you make it illegal, what are you doing? You aren't making anything more fair for the dogmatic person who thinks it's a sin, you're just forcing others to follow their beliefs. If you make it legal, you aren't telling that dogmatic person, "hey, you have to be gay now," you are simply saying, "who are you who is so important that they can decide what someone else can or can not do?"

This is the case with many things, by making certain things that pertain to lifestyles or personal choices illegal, you are in fact trying to make the state more uniform and restrictive. Some people might talk about things democratically, that things should go the way of the majority. I wholeheartedly agree that the majority should rule. However, I do not believe that the idealisms, lifestyles, or cultures of a majority should overrule and take command of the idealisms, lifestyles, and cultures of a minority. The only time "majority rules" decisions should abolish the choice of a minority is when it pertains to office elections, international affairs, or anything else that doesn't have anything to do with lifestyles. Proposition eight? The mere fact that it even came into existence is appalling, the fact that it passed is terrifying.

tl;dr, who do you think you are to tell me how to live?