The fall of Warcraft III - Opinions

[Im_On_56k]

I dont count wow as warcraft IIII. But thats my opinion.

 

[Darg]

following on from Ace's post #12, due to oversaturation in the mapping "market", it is very very difficult to put out a map that these days that people will talk about for ages to come. To have a chance at that, you have to enter into some sort of collabarative project, where you combine the best skinners/modellers with the best trigger coders and the best terrainers (and whatever else you need). For anyone trying to do a mapping project entirely/mostly on their own, the chances of their map being a success are much less than they were back circa 2003.

Certainly from my point of view, I missed the boat completely. I had one or two maps that would have been great had they been released back in 2003 when I was working on them. If I were to release these maps now, they might be fun to play for a short while, but they would never meet up to the sorts of standards set by maps like ToB (or even NCCD), and thus would get boring fairly quickly.

 

[XXXconanXXX]

I think the guy that hacked ToB is trying to become famous:

http://www.google.com/search?q=KRAL...ient=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

 

[SD_Ryoko]

Holy shit, thats scary

How the hell do you just 'take over' sites and change the text?

It looks like a lot of his 'hacks' are just 'posts' on peoples open forums and guest books though.

Blizzard?

Naw. They prolly aint gonna make anything we want.

They havn't announced a project in ..... how long?

They won't make a D3 or a W4.

WOW is War4, and D3 in one package. Build a character and get items & skills, just like diablo, with warcrafts theme.

There just gonna do more stuff for wow, sit back, do nadda, and make killer cash doing it. I wouldn't expect either game from them anytime soon.

 

[XXXconanXXX]

Most of the sites are PHPNukes and PHPbb sites.

A guy on the ToB forums aid it's an exploit in the two forums, sdo you can easily change things around on the front page, but you can't do much more than that.

You also have to be a mod / admin and have permission to put stuff on the front page.

Heh, play WoW and really see how similar D2 and WoW are. Skills? You buy them, you have a small skill tree later on for stuff like that.

Items? The item drop system is nothing like D2's, much different.

Leveling? Hell, it takes me a month jsut to get to level 20, very, VERY hard to get to 60, trust me.

Tons mroe in WOW you can do then an D2.

Why is it that everyone thinks they know WoW so much when they haven't even played it? Hell, BrokenX said "omg dude wow sucks, PT rx" somethnig like that, and he said he hasn't even played the damn game.

 

[DarthTyranus]

Hi guys. I am sorry but my internet was down so i was not able to post anything. Anyway, i have noticed a lot of less posts in the World Editor Forum. I see that you die-hards are upset.

By the way, what zone do you guys play on.I might join you sometime.

 

[Rinpun]

I dont count wow as warcraft IIII. But thats my opinion.

Just be quiet. You have no knowledge of ROMAN NUMERALS!

I
II
III
IV
V
VI
VII
VIII
IX
X

Most of the sites are PHPNukes and PHPbb sites.

A guy on the ToB forums aid it's an exploit in the two forums, sdo you can easily change things around on the front page, but you can't do much more than that.

You also have to be a mod / admin and have permission to put stuff on the front page.

Heh, play WoW and really see how similar D2 and WoW are. Skills? You buy them, you have a small skill tree later on for stuff like that.

Items? The item drop system is nothing like D2's, much different.

Leveling? Hell, it takes me a month jsut to get to level 20, very, VERY hard to get to 60, trust me.

Tons mroe in WOW you can do then an D2.

Why is it that everyone thinks they know WoW so much when they haven't even played it? Hell, BrokenX said "omg dude wow sucks, PT rx" somethnig like that, and he said he hasn't even played the damn game.

I'll bet you that you just like WoW for its gameplay and that is a good thing...but it doesn't cut it for the money they're asking. I'm not getting it because I have no reason to pay 10 to 15$ a month to play a repetitive MMORPG! I'd much rather play Guild Wars which is just 50$ upfront for a similar and, actually, graphically superior game.

BrokenX isn't smart in saying it, because I bet he hasn't brought up the reasons or hasn't emphasized them.

1) No ENVIRONMENT. What were they thinking? Part of the goodness in an MMORPG is the landscape, and Warcraft has none. It's all gigantic and fuzzy--someone forgot to use more polygons for the environment and less for the heroes--who don't actually have that many polygons. That, or they need alpha bones or grass dotting the areas. I just look at the dungeons of WoW via the screenshots and man do they stink! It, in a way, is as bad as runescape, and in some ways, better (actual texture, but it's fuzzy and applied wrong).

2) Icons?! I've noticed this, but they've stolen like 50-75% of their icons from Warcraft III. Why can't they create better ones? *Sigh*

3) Balance? I've heard that some classes are ridiculous. The point with creating an MMORPG is to make it as fair as possible right upfront, and the patches mainly repair errors in dungeons and such. What happened to to such a brilliant system? Runescape has a sort of balanced system in that the best mages are low-level, and the warriors and rangers have bitter rivalry in the higher levels. Tip: Don't go into the wilderness until you're level 60 or so, or else you'll be attacked by the mage newbs who do twice as much damage as you do, not equal or less. They drop some sweet runes if you know how to smack the crap out of them Guild Wars has a wonderful class system and while the Warrior Monk is the cheapest of them all, he can still be owned by a Warrior Ranger, if I recall correctly. In fact, primary class Monks can own a Warrior if they're given enough chance to cast their uber spells. It's the rangers that aren't so lucky

So in conclusion, WoW is an acceptable MMORPG, but I won't play it unless I have time to waste and a lot of money to waste (I don't find the amount of money per entertainment ounce acceptable for myself). I'd rather pay 50$ (buy) for infinite entertainment, such as Zelda Windwaker (every so often I go through and beat that game again) or pay 5$ (Gamefly) for temporary entertainment. It's a lot better than WoW, the big money sucker. I won't argue that some things about it are grand, but it's just not worth all the money they're asking.

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You know, I think they put off or canceled Starcraft: Ghost when they realized Halo dominated the market and that Halo 2 was coming out soon (releasing it would not get them their money back). Probably "#%@%# this, we're putting it out for the Xbox 360 if we make it at all".

 

[XXXconanXXX]

I'll bet you that you just like WoW for its gameplay and that is a good thing...but it doesn't cut it for the money they're asking. I'm not getting it because I have no reason to pay 10 to 15$ a month to play a repetitive MMORPG! I'd much rather play Guild Wars which is just 50$ upfront for a similar and, actually, graphically superior game.

I can understand your point of view. Though, for me, I'm not dissapointed,s ince WoW is extremely addictive.

But, my points -

1) No ENVIRONMENT. What were they thinking? Part of the goodness in an MMORPG is the landscape, and Warcraft has none. It's all gigantic and fuzzy--someone forgot to use more polygons for the environment and less for the heroes--who don't actually have that many polygons. That, or they need alpha bones or grass dotting the areas. I just look at the dungeons of WoW via the screenshots and man do they stink! It, in a way, is as bad as runescape, and in some ways, better (actual texture, but it's fuzzy and applied wrong).

Most fo the thingsyour saying are from screenshots and such, but you have to be in the game to experience it. I love how they made the environments, I truly believe Ashenvale and Lordaeront o look like they do. The "fuzzy" environment is due to a crappy computer you saw the screenshots from. A thing about polygons - Look at how huge the map is, they couldn't afford to have more unless you want something like Doom - something that takes a super computer to handle. The servers are under TONS of stress due to all the data they store from that many players, no wonder they have so many servers.

2) Icons?! I've noticed this, but they've stolen like 50-75% of their icons from Warcraft III. Why can't they create better ones? *Sigh*

Perhaps, but I like it since it gives a more Warcraft feel. Though, I do think they should've had more custom ones.

3) Balance? I've heard that some classes are ridiculous. The point with creating an MMORPG is to make it as fair as possible right upfront, and the patches mainly repair errors in dungeons and such. What happened to to such a brilliant system? Runescape has a sort of balanced system in that the best mages are low-level, and the warriors and rangers have bitter rivalry in the higher levels. Tip: Don't go into the wilderness until you're level 60 or so, or else you'll be attacked by the mage newbs who do twice as much damage as you do, not equal or less. They drop some sweet runes if you know how to smack the crap out of them Guild Wars has a wonderful class system and while the Warrior Monk is the cheapest of them all, he can still be owned by a Warrior Ranger, if I recall correctly. In fact, primary class Monks can own a Warrior if they're given enough chance to cast their uber spells. It's the rangers that aren't so lucky

This is where your totally wrong. HEARING is different than PLAYING.

Look at patch 4.2.1, look at how many things they fixed and balanced. The classes are unique; Rogues have a system in which your awarded combo points when you use certain spells and certain spells require those for more damage. Warriors, instead of using mana use Rage which grows whenever they use certain spells and become under attack.

or pay 5$ (Gamefly) for temporary entertainment. It's a lot better than WoW, the big money sucker.

I'm getting sick of hearing this over and over. The game sucks just becuase it costs so much? It seems the people who hate it are the people who have never even touched it in their lives and the people who love it are the people who actually play it.

You know, I think they put off or canceled Starcraft: Ghost when they realized Halo dominated the market and that Halo 2 was coming out soon (releasing it would not get them their money back). Probably "#%@%# this, we're putting it out for the Xbox 360 if we make it at all".

Then why is it flashed all over the Blizzard site? And plus, Xbox 360 is coming out in about 2 years, assuming they release it at Christmas.

 

[SilverHawk]

Well, Rinpun, I hope you're right. I'm rather anti-MMORPG; I would much rather see another RTS, such as SC2 or W4 (preferrably SC2 ). I think SC had much more emphasis on strategy than W3 does.

 

[Shadowy Fear]

He's just mad that WoW is stealing away a lot of the pro warcraft modders, meleers, and gamers, and leaving us with the hormonally stressed 12-year-old gangsta trashtalkers (in the games I've played).

Starcraft had terrible environments, though. It was just so REPITITIVE ... I played it only a few times at my friend's house, though, on the early levels, but still ... the ground texture was completly the same through the level I played (an early one). I think warcraft has more emphasis on micromanagement, actually, so you are probably correct in that starcraft has more emphasis on tactegy.

 

[DM Cross]

UGH, that is true -.- I hate playing melee games with anyone that I'm not friends with. (Actually, I hate playing melee games with anyone who's better then me, which is most everyone, ROFL!) I especially hate the idiots who can't seem to let you live down a lose. -.- Bastards.

 

[Shadowy Fear]

I haven't palyed a melee game in ... months . I just like to play custom games ... but all the time, more and more and just DotA in disguise ...

 

[DM Cross]

I've never played DotA, but I do play a lot of melee against the computer...Best with Orc and Undead

But anyway, back to the topic:

Yeah, I've never played Starcraft, so I can't talk much about the gameplay. But I already stated my views on futuristic games, and the problems that lie within them. WC has a much bigger base to start from. Magic is a common myth, so is Shamanism, Witch Doctors, and Undead are one HELL of a general type of myth.

Interesting question though:
Why are there no straight-out Vampires in Warcraft? Does Warcraft have something against Vampires?! SHOULD I BE INSULTED AND BURN THE COMPANY TO THE GROUND, JUST TO PISS IN THE ASHES?!

Well, I hope not.

 

[SD_Ryoko]

Just because the item system is different does not mean that

'Your a character class adventurer roaming around, leveling up, killing monsters and collecting items."

We have WoW - whatchu talkin bout

 

[AceHart]

I wouldn't call the Zerg "futuristic".
They totally rule, but that's besides the point

On the other hand, some races do have their own problems:

 

[DM Cross]

LOL! Ace, that was hilarious, where did you find that?

It looks vaguely familiar (the style, anyway) but I don't remember where I've seen it.

 

[Rinpun]

ROFL, Acehart!

Anyway, to reply to conan.

I'm getting sick of hearing this over and over. The game sucks just becuase it costs so much? It seems the people who hate it are the people who have never even touched it in their lives and the people who love it are the people who actually play it.

I didn't say it sucked. You took it in the wrong context. I said it was a BIG MONEY SUCKER as in it SUCKED MONEY, not SUCKED LIKE...well, you get the picture.

He's just mad that WoW is stealing away a lot of the pro warcraft modders, meleers, and gamers, and leaving us with the hormonally stressed 12-year-old gangsta trashtalkers (in the games I've played).

If you're referring to me, I could care less if the "pro warcraft modders" left and all the other guys. I'll move on to something else.

My main concern was how WoW got so popular and expensive, but you know, I suppose I should draw back on my Economics lessons and decide at 15$ is actually acceptible.

Supply and Demand, I would suppose. Since Warcraft has such a %#@&%in large fanbase, I would suppose WoW would be swamped with players. and Whenever you shift the demand curve to the right without shifting the supply curve (the WoW server count and WoW game producers), it's OBVIOUS the price will shoot really high. My only surprise is why it wasn't 5$ or something and then steadily increasing. 'Twas quite imminient, as far as I know.

Well, Rinpun, I hope you're right. I'm rather anti-MMORPG; I would much rather see another RTS, such as SC2 or W4 (preferrably SC2 ). I think SC had much more emphasis on strategy than W3 does.

That's exactly how I think. Age of Mythology was an AMAZING RTS. While not having amazing graphics, it was very amusing and unique. Several different humans that worship Gods to get God Powers and use units from mythology to fight alongside their army units. It was very amusing to be Greek and watch my Minotaurs pick up units as the units flail their arms back and forth as they're thrown into a nearby tree where they roll around a bit before sprawling over dead

 

[Shadowy Fear]

Yes, AoM was great The Titans Exp. was pretty good too . The only downside is that they have a terrible editor (then again, ALL editors are terrible in comparison to WC III).

No, Rinpun, I wasn't referring to you . You are one of the most cultured people here; you almost never make a typo, and you don't get mad very easily over trivial things, from what I can see, and if/when you do, you don't post ludicrously offensive flames.

 

[Rinpun]

Yes, I agree. In fact, the expansion gave it an erroneous editor that, every so often, decides that none of your trigger's actions will work, no matter what you do. I swear, Age of Mythology and it's expansion are totally demonic editor-wise

But I did find the campaigns very fun (just because you don't level up doesn't mean you can't have strategy and a really good time) and I also found the "melee" maps very fun as well. They're a lot easier to figure out rather than Warcraft, and without leveling it definitely emphasizes on total strategy with the allocation of resources to your army. Warcraft deals with figuring out the abilities of the races (because they're not super duper obvious) and then putting out as many of the cheater unit of that race (Druids of the Talon for Night Elves if I recall correctly) you can and level up your annoying hero (Paladin or Archmage for Human are quite annoying) while buying further annoying neutral heroes (if possible).

In Age of Mythology, you can figure out what the race is specialized in or at least what the God they worship is specialized in--it's very interesting. I LOVE being Ra and farming like mad, then having the pharoah bless/empower (forgot what it's called) the Migdol Fortress and then laugh as the enemy is DROWNED in camels. I also love being the Norse. They emphasize fighting especially with Loki, who is uber. Choose Loki, then build a lot of those hammer-twirling dudes (don't remember their name) and watch that while you gain favor from your fighting you also see myth creatures constantly popping up, even ones that don't belong to your chosen minor god (save the Valkryies that pop up, they're essential to healing your army).

But that's enough ranting. Age of Mythology owns. I'm going to get Age of Empires 3 and, fortunately, it's BEAUTIFUL. This is off-topic, but does anyone know when AoE for DS will come out and if it's turn-based or not? RTSs are better than boring turn-based...and if it is an RTS, my Dad, who also loves Age of Empires, will get a DS as well :-D

 

[XXXconanXXX]

'Your a character class adventurer roaming around, leveling up, killing monsters and collecting items."

Never said that, WoW is nothing like Diablo II. Leveling was insanely easy in D2, while in WoW leveling is a bit harder and takes longer. F' the item system, you forgot the whole point. The point is, that D2 and WoW might be similar, saying they're alike is insane just becuase they follow the same guideline. Shall I go on about how D2 and WOW are different?

1.) Quests are completely different. If you have WoW, you should know this. Tell me, how does the quest system in D2 work? Simple: All quests are set in stone, and you have to completel them to move on. WoW's are completely sidequests, I don't need to finish a quest in order to move onto the hgihest level playing feild. (In certain situations, yes)

2.) The biggest difference? GAMEPLAY. WoW is an MMORPG, while D2 was an RPG. D2 was completely different in balancing, graphics, etc.

3.) Economy? Hell, there is no economy in D2. In WoW, someone could live off using professions and AHing there works.