Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness [Yes, Warcraft II in Warcraft III]

[Andrewgosu]

We should make a campaign from scratch. The damn deal is with models - there are no Oil Rig, Foundry or refinery models...for both races. Same goes for a few units, the original Death Knight, for example...

 

[Bwinks]

well hey, if you know of any tutorials on how how to make models like that, i'll gladly help... i just am really still new to the whole WC3E design thing. I'll start lookin on these forums and the web for easy made tutorials on how to design and create models from scratch... see what i can do (or at least find)

 

[chovynz]

@Andrew: Do you think we could model one death knight then just mount him on a horse or would you prefer two deathknights? one on foot and one on horse?
(or rather maybe I need to go look at a picture of each unit .)

Anyway kinda off the track for my direction. I was just suggesting things that might help you, help us get the direction , w/e.

I am open to suggestions and for help.

Meanwhile, I will do the exact opposite - I won' tell anyone, what the progress is atm! So check out this thread regulary. I even might release some test maps.

Atm, I am an considering, if to import all wc2 icons and sounds or use wc3's. So any feedback is appriciated too.

At first I thought we should use wc3. But after playing around in WC2 for a little while screenshotting and stuff, I really like the icons and sounds of WC2. It has a different feel to WC3 stuff. So now I don't know which way to go. IMO, There's nothing like hearing "You da boss!" Maybe this will help.

Pros for using WC3 sounds/icons:

Little or No imported sounds/icons necessary.
Keeps filesizes down
Brings WC3 feel to the original story​

Cons for using WC3 sounds/icons:

Isn't the same as WC2. Both have their own individual feel to it the story. Also has a different timeline. What do we do about Trolls? In WC3 they've left the Horde. We could use Forest Troll sounds I guess...​

Pros for using WC2 sounds/icons:

Keeps the feeling of the original but changing it to WC3 engine.
Fairly easy to import new sounds.​

Cons for using WC2 sounds/icons:

We'd have to import sounds and icons into every single map.
Potential for large filesize. (Is that a problem?)​

 

[chovynz]

Resource Post: to be updated. This is so you can have a reference to what maps looks like. I tried searching for these online but had no luck so I've made them myself. (Screenshots and Photoshop)
Act I: Seas of Blood
Chapter 1 - Zul'dare

Chapter 2 - Raid at Hillsbrad

Chapter 3 - Southshore

Chapter 4 - Assault on Hillsbrad

Act 2: Khaz Modan
Chapter 1 - Tol Barad
Chapter 2 - The Badlands
Chapter 3 - The Fall of Stromgarde

Act 3: Quelthalas
Chapter 1 - The Runestone at Caer
Chapter 2 - The Razing of Tyr's Hand
Chapter 3 - The Destruction of Stratholme
Chapter 4 - The Dead Rise as Quel'thalas Falls

Act 4: Tides of Darkness
Chapter 1 - The Tomb of Sargeras
Chapter 2 - The Siege of Dalaran
Chapter 3 - The Fall of Lordaeron

WC2 models:
Altar of Storms

 

[chovynz]

Triple Post
Comparison post:


First map. What you see here is:
1) the Photoshopped WC2 map. 2)Same view for WC3 map, 3)Tiltedview to show hills, 4)Tilted map with shadows on, and showing the playable map area.

I've found some issues that need some discussion.

1. Differences in scale and Playable map area (introduced in WC3, non-existant in WC2)
2. Terrain differences
3. Unit differences

1) The map sizes in WC2 had more flexibilty in scale. The later maps in the campaigns get very large. I was wondering what you thought about this? Is it going to affect the way we do the maps in vanilla WE or are you fine with using WEno-limits to make larger size maps?

1a) Playable map area. This is a new thing that is introduced in WC3. This also impacts on Map area. Do you want to extend the playable map area to the edge of the entire map? If you do, that may impact on whether or not you can use HandleVars in the maps. If a unit gets too close to the edge of the map (within 256 units of the map edge), "handles" can get lost and you can lose functionality. Do you intend on using HandleVars? How do you want to handle (pun intended) this potential problem?

2) The Ice looks a little weird when compared to the original snow and darker snow tiles. I was wondering if you want to import a custom tile of snow, just a little darker in color, so that we can match the WC2 maps?

3) In WC2 the archers are male. In WC3 the archers are female. What do you want to do in this case?

 

[deloctyte]

I have a model of a male archer, I scavenged it from wc3sear.ch... its not mine, but its awesome!
+ with a reskin of it, you can get rangers aswell...
well, do you want it?

 

[Andrewgosu]

@Andrew: Do you think we could model one death knight then just mount him on a horse or would you prefer two deathknights? one on foot and one on horse?

Wasn't the original Death Knight of horse only?

Original Death Knight

At first I thought we should use wc3. But after playing around in WC2 for a little while screenshotting and stuff, I really like the icons and sounds of WC2. It has a different feel to WC3 stuff.

The file size doesn't matter as in, this will be a 1 player campaign. I wouldn'y be surprised, if this bypasses 50 MB limit. We shall use WC2 sounds and icons, not matter how long it will take to import them.

The map sizes in WC2 had more flexibilty in scale. The later maps in the campaigns get very large. I was wondering what you thought about this? Is it going to affect the way we do the maps in vanilla WE or are you fine with using WEno-limits to make larger size maps?

I think the 256x256 limit is enough to satisfy our needs. The maps don't have to be so perfect, they can differ a little bit. Not much, though, but still. It would be nearly impossible to duplicate the original.

Playable map area. This is a new thing that is introduced in WC3. This also impacts on Map area. Do you want to extend the playable map area to the edge of the entire map? If you do, that may impact on whether or not you can use HandleVars in the maps. If a unit gets too close to the edge of the map (within 256 units of the map edge), "handles" can get lost and you can lose functionality. Do you intend on using HandleVars? How do you want to handle (pun intended) this potential problem?

The playable map area can be left as it is. Yes, I intend to use HandleVars. Mainly, for triggered spells and the oil system.

The Ice looks a little weird when compared to the original snow and darker snow tiles. I was wondering if you want to import a custom tile of snow, just a little darker in color, so that we can match the WC2 maps?

We can do that, but it isn't highly necessary. The differences between WC2 and WC3 are so great, that we can't possibly make everything 1:1.

In WC2 the archers are male. In WC3 the archers are female. What do you want to do in this case?

I have a model of a male archer, I scavenged it from wc3sear.ch... its not mine, but its awesome!
+ with a reskin of it, you can get rangers aswell...
well, do you want it?

Yes. Of course. I think I maybe even have a male human archer, too.


Anyway, good job with the first map, chovynz. Maybe You could post it as an attachment, so I could examine it?

 

[chovynz]

...
Anyway, good job with the first map, chovynz. Maybe You could post it as an attachment, so I could examine it?

Cool, thanks for deciding those things. It makes it easier for everyone when we know what the parameters are for the maps. Maybe we could do a map with all the tiles, units and sounds? That'd make it easier for distribution of them, and we wouldn't need to import things again. Only need to do it once and copy that map, and edit the copy.

Sure thing. First Map attached. I did it pretty quick. If you want any changes feel free to ask me to redo, or do it yourself. Whatever happens.

I've been playing around with some oilish looking things. We might not need to import anything for the oil.

Edit: What about just using bubbles for the oil?

 

[Andrewgosu]

Thanks. Yes, the map containing all imports sounds nice, but, all he maps don't require all sounds, icons, models because early campaign chapters don't have so advanced units, buildings.


I'll upload some of the Orc units, that I have modified to be like in Warcraft 2, meanwhile. So, anyone, who wishes, can continue modifying more units into that map. I'll do Orc spells meanwhile.

 

[Andrewgosu]

Updated the third post with units that are missing. Listed up only Orc units, Human units followed soon.

Updated post

EDIT: The first chapter is ready for testing.

 

[chovynz]

Nice. Good job on the snow. Looks much better than the ice.

Issues noticed:
Verbal "Build more burrows" when food limit is reached. And yet...we're building Pig farms...

"Build Orc Burrow" for the Pig farm text under the build menu.

Can't read the mission text off the bottom of text section...can't read mission objectives. I suggest we leave off the mission objectives from the loading screen and do something brief rather than the whole lot. When the map loads up we can display the mission objectives under quests and/or in text to player. You know what I miss? That guy reading it out... Maybe if we ask nicely Blizzard will give us some sound files?

Scorescreen image - is it random or chosen? IMO it looks a little weird seeing the voodoo witchdoctor troll guy in an orc campaign.

 

[elmstfreddie]

Will War2 cinematics be used? Because sadly I prefer them over War3 cinematics...

Edit > Yo, anyway I can help? I loved (still do) war2.

Major Problems lvl 1: No war2 music! (lol)
Also, the camera needs adjusting. Doesn't have the Warcraft II feeling.
Idle workers icon is the War3 peon icon. Did War II have idle workers?
There is a crack in the trees at the bottom or something, giving you this huge rectangle of vision at the bottom.
Edit > Ok, that was because that was supposed to be there. However the sigh radius is too large. You need to decrease that.
If you win and press continue, you can't continue. In War II you could continue, then finish the level whenever you wish.

Edit > K I have Warcraft II music now if you need it.

 

[SFilip]

http://hiveworkshop.com/resources_new/models/363/
Somewhat looks like the Lumber Mill. Actually this model is present in Wc3, but the above version has the build animation and all.

 

[Sooda]

> Chapter 1 - Zul'dare.w3x

I agree with chovynz, I enjoyed playing it. Was nice and quiet. Looking forward to other chapters.

 

[chovynz]

Will War2 cinematics be used? Because sadly I prefer them over War3 cinematics...

Edit > Yo, anyway I can help? I loved (still do) war2.

1) Major Problems lvl 1: No war2 music! (lol)
2) Also, the camera needs adjusting. Doesn't have the Warcraft II feeling.
3) Idle workers icon is the War3 peon icon. Did War II have idle workers?
4) There is a crack in the trees at the bottom or something, giving you this huge rectangle of vision at the bottom.
5) Edit > Ok, that was because that was supposed to be there. However the sigh radius is too large. You need to decrease that.
6) If you win and press continue, you can't continue. In War II you could continue, then finish the level whenever you wish.

7) Edit > K I have Warcraft II music now if you need it.

1) I agree with the music bit. I think we need toggleable (on and off) WC2 music. Somepeople wil not want to hear it, some people will.
2) Personally I think the camera is fine as WC3 style. We're porting WC2 to WC3, not making an exact WC2 replica.
3) ditto above.
4) Elms answered it himself.
5) Not sure about that. I think it's a similar issue to 2 & 3
6) That would be a nice feature, although a little pointless since you don't keep the gold/wood that you've harvested in WC2. I wonder if it's a new thing we could bring in in this one though? Or ... maybe not. I know that missions would be changed significantly if we were to allow previously harvested gold wood transfer from chapter 1 to chapter 2 for example...

Just wondering.. is the gold and wood harvested per peon the right amount?

 

[elmstfreddie]

Yes, it's the correct amount. I made sure of that
I agree you're not reproducing WarII, but the camera should be farther away.

 

[Andrewgosu]

Nice. Good job on the snow. Looks much better than the ice.

Issues noticed:
Verbal "Build more burrows" when food limit is reached. And yet...we're building Pig farms...

"Build Orc Burrow" for the Pig farm text under the build menu.

Can't read the mission text off the bottom of text section...can't read mission objectives. I suggest we leave off the mission objectives from the loading screen and do something brief rather than the whole lot. When the map loads up we can display the mission objectives under quests and/or in text to player. You know what I miss? That guy reading it out... Maybe if we ask nicely Blizzard will give us some sound files?

Scorescreen image - is it random or chosen? IMO it looks a little weird seeing the voodoo witchdoctor troll guy in an orc campaign.

Yes, the "Build Orc Burrows" texts shall be replaced and all the correct sounds will soon be used. The score screen is random.

I thought about the loading screen. What if we leave it empty and every time a new chapter begins, one starts with a black screen(cinematic trigger, fade filters) and a white text comes from top and goes down, just like movie ending credits, showing the description and objectives?

Will War2 cinematics be used? Because sadly I prefer them over War3 cinematics...

War2 had only 2,3-4 cinematics? We'll see into that.

]
Major Problems lvl 1: No war2 music!

All the musics and sounds will be imported and used. Atm, this was just a test map.

Also, the camera needs adjusting. Doesn't have the Warcraft II feeling.

I believe we can also compensate it by making the units scaling values smaller.

Idle workers icon is the War3 peon icon. Did War II have idle workers?

No they didn't. But one can change it by modifying the unit classification.

There is a crack in the trees at the bottom or something, giving you this huge rectangle of vision at the bottom.

Shall be fixed.

If you win and press continue, you can't continue. In War II you could continue, then finish the level whenever you wish.

That is do-able. Just a few dummy dialogs and away we go!

http://hiveworkshop.com/resources_new/models/363/
Somewhat looks like the Lumber Mill. Actually this model is present in Wc3, but the above version has the build animation and all.

I'll look into that.

 

[elmstfreddie]

I thought about the loading screen. What if we leave it empty and every time a new chapter begins, one starts with a black screen(cinematic trigger, fade filters) and a white text comes from top and goes down, just like movie ending credits, showing the description and objectives?

Well in War II the orc campaign started by a book with writing that scrolls with the story, and then quests at the bottom. Maybe we could turn that image of the book and stuff into a fade filter, and then have text scroll.

 

[Miz]

Well I was planing of making a Campaign that wouldn't be on b.net that you had to dl on a different site

But I can help with crap idk what I can do but w/e

 

[Bwinks]

waaait

hey i thought our original intention of buildin this WC2 mod for WC3 was because of it being so outdated... (IE: at least in MY view of things, we SHOULD NOT make it the same in every demension as WC2...

what i think about WC2 made for WC3:

voicemappings and sound effects: Sweet, awesome, great

Campaign and the such: What this project should be all about :shades:

Importing WC2 MOVIES???!: :banghead: Hell no. they sucked, and anyone that thinks differently should take a break, install WC2, and watch em... they aren't that great at all (maybe for the time they were)... which brings me to say, if anyone has really good talent at making cinamatics and models, he/she could go ahead and make a map or two simply capturing the same thing that happened in the old WC2 movies... but that ... would still be bad... the WC2 movies Sucked. But hey, That's my opinion.

WC2 Scrolling: :banghead: FUCK NO! We are making WC2 in WC3! why the hell should we try to make the great game scrolling for WC3 the same as it was for WC2?! I just gave myself a migrane trying to play through lv 4 on the WC2 campaign BECAUSE of the damn scrolling. it's horrible. Keep the WC3 scrolling and camera movement the same (once we are done with this project, we can (and maybe should) add an option at the start of the campaign asking what controls the player would like: WC2 style, ro WC3. But, unless i heard that comment wrong earlier in this threat, i have to say that is the dumbest thing i've ever heard.) :banghead:


By the way, once im done with my exams, i'm gonna go buck wild and try to create those building and unit mods as fast as i can.