World of Warcraft, dying?

[Kevin]

Blizzard's claims on active subscribers is suspect as far as I'm concerned. See, an inactive account is supposed to have the characters deleted from the system after a few months right? That's what I was told. I have several members in my guild who've quit playing the game for over 8 months, but their characters are still in my guild.

While I can believe 4 mill subscribers, this 8 mill figure doesn't mesh with me for some reason. It sounds like blizz is doing the same bs by counting accounts they shouldn't like verant did with everquest.

 

[Husky]

twinking is the only way for horde to win battle grounds.

LOOOOOOOOL. Sorry that made me rofl irl.

You can't judge ANYTHING in this game till you've got to 60 and experienced it you're self. On my 59 Undead Mage we win 90% of BG's. There arn't "twinks" as such at that level and i've never come across one. It's always even footing and we always win.

Now aswell as that 59 Mage, I have a Tauren Druid and a Night Elf Hunter (both 60's) and have vast experience with both in BG's. On my Hunter any level bracket 10-59 Horde would win. Oh wait, they do on my Mage aswell . Now at 60 this is much different because of premades (a group of 10, 15 people of the opposite faction in same guild/server using Vent to farm max honor p/hour).

Anyway;

AB gates would open up on the horde side a full minute before the alliance gates would open.

Once again, lol. Stop lying, that's completely false.

No actually you don't. Alterac Valley is balanced. It's bsed entirely on manipulating the surroundings than gearing your guild up.

I'm not out to get you man, but shit keeps coming out of you're mouth.

Have you SEEN the chokepoints Horde have compared to alliance? Have you ever tried running through Dun Baldar and not aggro'ing a single guard/NPC? Oh wait, Alliance can do that, but Horde have to fight off the whole NPC Force. Have you also seen the SF/AS bridge? Dude, the archers on the tower's shoot down on you as the alliance get 5-10 guys and hold off the whole force. There is no chokepoint this big in Frostwolf.

Also, have you seen how open the area between Iceblood and Frostwolf is? Now walk from Stonehearth to Dun Baldar... It's all enclosed up ('cept for the area where you can go under the bridge). But eh, enough about AV (terrible Battleground).

It's called twinking when the guild farms specifically to gear up alts.

That is what twinking is buddy. Horde do it a lot at level 60. That's why alliance has been pissed at blizzard for not implementing a gear match maker.

You DO realise Alliance Twink JUST AS MUCH as Horde? If not more? On most servers Alliance are progressed further in end-game then any other Horde guild? Also, Twinks are just alts of level 60's with money to blow (not always BWL/AQ40+ guild's farming gear for their level 19/29).

You cannot win WSG in Tier 0 0.5 when Horde is twinked their alts with bwl tier 3 equip

.

Jesus christ....

THERE IS A LEVEL LIMIT ON GEAR YA'KNOW! How can a level 19 put on BoP BWL epics? And how can YOU fight in Tier 0/0.5 in level 19/29/39 bracket character (anything past 39 isn't considered twinking, only just a good geared person)?

Dude, twinking is where a person gets the best gear possible AT THAT LEVEL and then slaps the top enchants on them, where are you gettting this BWL geared level 19/29/39 shit from? If you're talking in the level. And stop bloody saying it's only Horde. Alliance as I said twink just as much as Horde and Alliance are usually more progressed end-game, so stop saying it's only Horde in Naxxramas. Stop making you're faction look like a bunch of retards.

Also stop talking like everyone you see is in Tier 3. Do you know how FEW people are in this type of gear? On my Horde server the highest Tier 3'd Horde has 3/9 Dreadnaught (most people in that guild are in 1-2 or none). There is now no Horde guild past AQ40 on my server now because they merged and died and some Alliance players are in 5/9+.

Please Kevin, you're a good guy and I don't have the slightest thing against you, but the comments you make are so retarded and stupid it makes me want to punch my monitor. Please come back when you've played this game properly.

Edit: Oh by the way. You're characters are only deleted when you push the delete key and type Delete in the box. You're friends may have left the game, but they obviously didn't delete their characters which is why you are seeing them.

Also, about the subscribers thing. The 8 Million subscribers is true, as this includes US/EU and China. About 40% of these subscribers are from China not US/EU. There are around 250-300 US servers, 150-200 EU and about 500+ China servers.

 

[Kevin]

Husky, I have a level 60 for each alliance class in the game. I've beat the non-raider game game. I mean I've conquered it. I play on Hyjal one of the oldest servers in the game.

Don't sit on your butt telling me that what I experienced is a lie, seriously, you want to be that offensive, you can cram it.

There is a known issue where warlocks on Horde Side can life tap kill soul stone res themselves outside the gates prior to starting, to my knowledge, it hasn't been fixed.

There was a known issue for over a week of the horde gates opening a full 30 seconds before alliance.

If you ever visited the PVP complain sites you'd see countless images of screen shots where AB and WSG begin with half the alliance team sorted. The computer sorts horde out first, it's a faced.

IF you've ever been on a server more than 3 months old, such as HYJAL, you will see PVP guilds twinking their level 60 buddies with epics they have on farm status in BWL for PVP ownage. The Horde have been known to do this.

THAT IS WHY THE ARENA MATCHES ARE BASED ON GEAR MATCHUP!

In AV -- NPCS OWN. Epic Gear from a tricked out guild won't win you spit.

All you need to do is read a few REAL messageboards on the PVP subject and you'll see everthing I said is 100%.

 

[NoxMortus]

There was a known issue for over a week of the horde gates opening a full 30 seconds before alliance.

Are you sure the horde gates actually opened? Because I saw a couple of tauren a few days back jump over one of the Horde gates in WSG. They got right outside the end of the alliance tunnel before the gates opened.

 

[Kevin]

Are you sure the horde gates actually opened? Because I saw a couple of tauren a few days back jump over one of the Horde gates in WSG. They got right outside the end of the alliance tunnel before the gates opened.

When I contacted the GM, it sounded like it was the horde gates in AB opening rather than them actually jumping over the fence. It was also relatively rare. If it was a jump exploit it'd be more common, wouldn't it? There are a lot of problems on the horde fence side.

In either case, I stopped playing pvp because even after over a week and a half they still weren't able to fix the exploit. It had been an ongoing issue by the time I had even reported it, and I got pissed and fed up with it.

They also admitted to the new ongoing issue of the computer picking just the horde characters until they were maxed out before going to alliance (both of these were confirmed ongoing issues by the GMs).

No idea if the issues still exist, mainly because the lack of attention to fixing these issues totally turned me off non-AV battlegrounds prior to me coming to Kaua'i (despite the pvp "improvements" being made).

 

[Im_On_56k]

Please Kevin, you're a good guy and I don't have the slightest thing against you, but the comments you make are so retarded and stupid it makes me want to punch my monitor. Please come back when you've played this game properly.

QFT.

Husky, I have a level 60 for each alliance class in the game. I've beat the non-raider game game. I mean I've conquered it. I play on Hyjal one of the oldest servers in the game.

Notice your saying 'alliance'. Now go reroll horde so you can view everything from their angle. You can NOT say everything is balanced until you have experienced it from both sides.

There is a known issue where warlocks on Horde Side can life tap kill soul stone res themselves outside the gates prior to starting, to my knowledge, it hasn't been fixed.

Wait you mean you've played every alliance class but warlocks right? 'Fizzled'.

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

Husky, I have a level 60 for each alliance class in the game. I've beat the non-raider game game. I mean I've conquered it. I play on Hyjal one of the oldest servers in the game.

-3 points for grammar "Hyjal, one of the oldest..." I origonally thought you ment you played at Mt. Hyjal, therfore calling you a complete idiot.

Also, you can't say your amazing because you got characters to 60. Plenty of people could do that, you know. A 60 rogue in blues would get pwned by a rogue in T2.

There is a known issue where warlocks on Horde Side can life tap kill soul stone res themselves outside the gates prior to starting, to my knowledge, it hasn't been fixed.

Ok... lets see how many people care? about 5... Oh noes! Lock can kill themselvs rofllol and rez outside gates! ahh!

Oh yeah, and other -5 for Grammar

There was a known issue for over a week of the horde gates opening a full 30 seconds before alliance.

Well, lets see shots, I have never seen an issure with it on my server, and you have no proof. Therefore, I must say your a bunch of crap...

If you ever visited the PVP complain sites you'd see countless images of screen shots where AB and WSG begin with half the alliance team sorted. The computer sorts horde out first, it's a faced.

Its happened with Horde as well. I've seen WSG and AB games where there horde started with 8 and alliance with like 15. Maybe its because not everyone wants to PvP! Omg, astounding revolation! /sarcasm

IF you've ever been on a server more than 3 months old, such as HYJAL, you will see PVP guilds twinking their level 60 buddies with epics they have on farm status in BWL for PVP ownage. The Horde have been known to do this.

So the Allliance guilds called "Twinks R US" and "Twinks for life" don't count, eh?

THAT IS WHY THE ARENA MATCHES ARE BASED ON GEAR MATCHUP!

NO DUH!! If someone in blues played someone in epics, of course the epic team would win. However, people something called TEAMWORK! (you alliance might not know the term ) would make it better. Ever played a CS replay? BGs are basically CS, a good groups with good comunication will win against one without.

All you need to do is read a few REAL messageboards on the PVP subject and you'll see everthing I said is 100%.

100% what? Crap? Monkey poo? Give us the sites these so called PVP forums!

 

[g1real]

Guys stop the flamewar on Kevin, he's not-so-pro at WoW. So what?

I've never gotten 1 char to lvl 60... too less time for that and I got bored due to having not much time, my highest was 38.

I'm a noob at WoW maybe, but I dare to admit that, I played warlock only because I like being the "underdog" if that's how it's called. I tried other classes, but warlock, just, so, owns, everything =).

 

[Mahucharn]

Guys stop the flamewar on Kevin, he's not-so-pro at WoW. So what?

I've never gotten 1 char to lvl 60... too less time for that and I got bored due to having not much time, my highest was 38.

I'm a noob at WoW maybe, but I dare to admit that, I played warlock only because I like being the "underdog" if that's how it's called. I tried other classes, but warlock, just, so, owns, everything =).

Thats true, if you get level 60 witin like 3 months you play way to much, and like I said at the beginning NO FLAME WARS TOLERATED

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

I played warlock only because I like being the "underdog" if that's how it's called. I tried other classes, but warlock, just, so, owns, everything =).

Warlocks are hardly "underdogs" anymore. They used to be poop on a string, but now they're like incredibly powerful.

 

[Mahucharn]

Sad but true

 

[Myzteryz]

There is no such thing as a "twink" past lvl 29.

 

[Mahucharn]

Thats true, when you pass level 29 then your too close to 60 to twink (39, 49, 59) Twinking is fun especially if your the horde.

 

[Sim]

Please, don't tell me this is a flame or something... After all the huge texts Kevin posted (as well as the answers and comments from other people), it is my right to answer to those, and I did not include any insult, Caps words or shouting in my post
He just said so many false things that I had to... fix them up!

I personally think 1 class geared in Tier3 is equal to 8 and even more 60s.

Every day I learn more about my warlock, even if I'm geared to shit. I'd not even trade my warlock for 8xlevel 60s of the 8 other classes in the game (Blue geared). Blue gear is just not efficient...

Just take a look at that: I have approximately 1 Highest-quality epic item for 3 weeks of play. 1 month is what it takes to level a class to 60. So... 1 level 60 is Equal to a Tier3 part (and equivalents, from AQ40 last bosses and the such), approximately, because those parts are hard as hell to get.

But I can personally claim I know much things in this game, compared to a friend I know who has 6 level 60s but don't even know what end-game is, and they all have MC gear.

Anyways, my point is that you are wrong about AV, and your experience or whatever won't change that

AV is rigged. It favors Alliance. Period. And I'm Alliance.

PvP at this time is cross-realm battleground, so it becomes more generalized. So, now that realms are grouped in groups of about 12, I can tell you that Alliance really often (too often) wins AV, in about every Realm group.

Horde can win, but it takes them MUCH MORE skill than Alliance, who just have to storm FrostWolf to death and they win, letting like 8 at Defense and that's all. Dun'Baldar is just too long to take compared to FW, and who cares about StoneHearth? lmao. We usually LET THEM have SH so they think they can storm Dun'Baldar, but it's false: We're all down there already, killing Drek'Thar. It takes longer to take DB than FW so they're basically screwed.

You can win Alterac Valley with tier 0 gear if you know how to complete the quests and protect your graveyard.

You're actually the random player that makes me cry in AV when I see one doing this. Do you want a mark of honor? Do you want fast bonus honor, fast rep? Ok, Don't do that. Rush FW, and Hordes will rush DB. Best team will win, get 3 or 1 mark, and it starts over again. Everyone's a winner.

When my alliance teams have lost AV it was to horde with Tier 0 and my alliance team had tier 3 rush noobs. So the standard twink noobs on Horde don't win AV because they are stupid enough to think it's the gear that matters more than the events.

Horde and Alliance are played by the same beings: Humans. There is almost no difference at all between the 2 factions, whether you like it or not. Thinking otherwise is childish.

Blood Elf Paladins and their Spell/Mana Break abilities will demonstrate to the horde that it's not the power of the individual that matters in AV soon enough.

Again, why should Horde be different than Alliance? There is just no difference at all, except racial skills which aren't really a big deal, seriously...

Kevin is right but AV is kind of rigged, the alliance have the familiar land, and by owning the horde in AB and WSG they have high warlord gears, and high level guilds to do onixia and nax ramus, molten core, black wing layer, upper black rock spire, umbrul sect, etc. they should divide 60 battle grounds in tier sets like tier 1 only people with tier 1 can enter and tier 2 with tier 2 etc. if you had more then x pieces you would join the others

Best quote ever, from someone who just never explored the deeps of end-game. BG's are ok as they are atm, except AV which has a small rigg but what you can do anyways? change the whole terrain? they just won't.

And if you want to start talking rigging, talk to me about nearly every single wsg and ab game I've been in where the computer picks horde teams first, then fills up the alliance teams after. Most of the games I was in had a full horde team of 15 (or ten), before it joined up the alliance team and the gate opened with 8 alliance (or 5).

There were more Horde players than Alliance players that's all. Don't argue with me there, it is that. Go anywhere and ask anyone
Nearly every single BGs? Then nearly every single of your BGs were missing Alliance. Deal with it, and join PvP groups. PuG's just don't get it.

So stop whining about skewed/imbalanced zone. Horde lose AV becase it's not skewed towards single player heroes like WSG and AB are. You can't win AV by twinking or using guild funds to mass equip everyone.

Again you miss the point. Horde are no different than Alliance, and you can't twink a level 60 (Coming to that).

You DO realise Alliance Twink JUST AS MUCH as Horde? If not more? On most servers Alliance are progressed further in end-game then any other Horde guild? Also, Twinks are just alts of level 60's with money to blow (not always BWL/AQ40+ guild's farming gear for their level 19/29).

Right, but they are progressing further only on the servers where there are more Alliances than Hordes But you are right, Alliances twink as much as Horde.

I won't quote Husky's whole post but he is right, on most of his points

Husky, I have a level 60 for each alliance class in the game. I've beat the non-raider game game. I mean I've conquered it. I play on Hyjal one of the oldest servers in the game.

Doesn't seem like it, oh my god no, not at all. If it really is the case, please show it by providing true information, which isn't biased because you only played Alliance.

About the bugs in AB / WSG: They do exist. You are right, and they are... omfg annoying!

About twinks: Well, I personally think that the really true way to play this game is being 60, a twink being only some moments of fun. Really, what you can do with a twink except have fun? There is no progression, no content, no hopes for anything. You can just kill the other faction nonstop, and that's all you can do. You can't even level.

So to say twinks are a plague...

You cannot win WSG in tier 0 or tier .5 when the horde have twinked their alts with BWL tier 3 equiv gear.

Level 60 twinks? You want to make me laugh? They are their main, or alts that they gear. You can't call a geared opponent a twink.

A twink is a character with gear that is not normally obtainable at this level, and which is obtained by the means of a higher-level character who is most probably wealthy. it is also a Non-level 60 character, a character that cannot use level 60 gear, but obtains level 60-like gear by other means, such as level 60 godly enchants and/or powerful Auction House items.

So yeah, a twink cannot be level 60, he cannot wear BWL gear and he cannot be a plague to a server, since there is no progression for this character.

IF you've ever been on a server more than 3 months old, such as HYJAL, you will see PVP guilds twinking their level 60 buddies with epics they have on farm status in BWL for PVP ownage. The Horde have been known to do this.

THAT IS WHY THE ARENA MATCHES ARE BASED ON GEAR MATCHUP!

In AV -- NPCS OWN. Epic Gear from a tricked out guild won't win you spit.

All you need to do is read a few REAL messageboards on the PVP subject and you'll see everthing I said is 100%.

My server is 2 years-and-1-month old. It is one of the first, to tell the truth.

I am going to repeat it to you once again:

You cannot give BWL gear to a twink. Period, god! BWL gear goes to level 60s. It requires level 60, and the guild with which you run the BWL won't let you take an item if it is for an alt, and anyways, items that drop in BWL, MC, Naxx, Onyxia, AQ, and even more are all "Bind on Picked up" which means they're bound to your character.

So what? you want me to raid for 1 entire year then don't be able to wtfpwn other players because it's my fault if I'm geared to shit?
No thanks, I like my uber gear, and I worked for it. Time to pwn non-geared people. If they run Naxx or BWl, they'll become geared. They can start anytime.

I've beat the non-raider game game.

Raids are the most important part of WoW. Often times if I cross someone who only PvP'd in his WoW experience, I'll most probably tell him he's still a noob, partially. Raids are the real challenge in this game.

In either case, I stopped playing pvp because even after over a week and a half they still weren't able to fix the exploit. It had been an ongoing issue by the time I had even reported it, and I got pissed and fed up with it.

It was located on your server only. Now that BGs work in realm-groups, it happens only if a BG has like 3 times more Horde than Alliance, or vice-versa. Before the savior patch came out, my realm also experienced this sometimes. But again, if you played with uber PvP groups you would not have seen this happen. A fact is that the Hordes against you were in a group, and you guys weren't. PuGs are just bad, I tell you again

Also, in the expansion and after there is a rumor that says that PvP'in will give experience, so bye-bye twinks! They will continue to level, whether you like it or not. I'd have to find the post again though.

Anyways... This isn't flaming of any kind, I'm just surprised at what you're saying. What you said would be the last thing that would make me stop WoW. Seriously, it has no impact!

Blizzard's claims on active subscribers is suspect as far as I'm concerned. See, an inactive account is supposed to have the characters deleted from the system after a few months right? That's what I was told. I have several members in my guild who've quit playing the game for over 8 months, but their characters are still in my guild.

It is part of their policy. Characters are worth too much in their eyes for Blizzard to just delete them after say 8 months of inactivity, while your character may have 13 months of activity (or 1, for what it matters). Your character's permanency is supposetly assured. I asked them myself on phone if I ever stopped playing what would happen to my character(s)!

Thank you

==================================================================

Legend!

MC = Molten Core
BWL = Blackwing Lair
Naxx = Naxx'ramas
Ony = Onyxia
UBRS = Upper Blackrock Spire
DB = Dun'Baldar
FW = Frostwolf Keep
SH = Stonehearth Bunker/Graveyard
AB = Arathi Basin, a battleground
WSG = Warsong Gulch, another battleground
AV = Alterac Valley, a bigger battleground
Tier1 = First epic set, dropping in MC
Tier2 = Second epic set, dropping in BWl
Tier3 = Third epic set, dropping in Naxx
Tier0 = Blue set, dropping in Scholomance/UBRS/Stratholme
PvP = Player Vs Player

 

[Blackveiled]

I agree, WoW Is NOT DYING, the reason why people play wow, is because theres alot of things to do, and it looks unique. It's cartoony look is really cool, but its also not really seen in many other games so well. Also with BC coming out tomorrow...well I have to say its about damn time. I'll goto the store at midnight if I have to (which I'am :O) the things also, now that the armor is going to be FREAKIN INSANE LOOKING WoW will get more dedicated pictures. The most advertising part of WoW is screenshots, if you dont know already, WoW is definately not going to die, especially if you look at the screenshots. Indeed. Its a MONEY-MAKER!!

 

[Sim]

Oh yea I forgot to say that in my post

WoW is growing, not dying !

 

[Oninuva]

I played WoW before Wc3 and to me WoW Sucks compared to wc3. I generally like RTS's more.

 

[Mahucharn]

I played WoW before Wc3 and to me WoW Sucks compared to wc3. I generally like RTS's more.

I'm with you on liking rts games.

 

[Kevin]

Please, don't tell me this is a flame or something... After all the huge texts Kevin posted (as well as the answers and comments from other people), it is my right to answer to those, and I did not include any insult, Caps words or shouting in my post
He just said so many false things that I had to... fix them up!

I personally think 1 class geared in Tier3 is equal to 8 and even more 60s.

Every day I learn more about my warlock, even if I'm geared to shit. I'd not even trade my warlock for 8xlevel 60s of the 8 other classes in the game (Blue geared). Blue gear is just not efficient...

Just take a look at that: I have approximately 1 Highest-quality epic item for 3 weeks of play. 1 month is what it takes to level a class to 60. So... 1 level 60 is Equal to a Tier3 part (and equivalents, from AQ40 last bosses and the such), approximately, because those parts are hard as hell to get.

But I can personally claim I know much things in this game, compared to a friend I know who has 6 level 60s but don't even know what end-game is, and they all have MC gear.

You say this because MC gear is the shiznite?

MC is crap.

Anyways, my point is that you are wrong about AV, and your experience or whatever won't change that

No your point is you think that because you have 1 tier 3 gear item, that you're god. And that's really the problem with people like you in guilds which think raiders are gods.

Then you try to use that as a bargaining chip in an argument where I even said I had been contacting and speaking with the GMS who VERIFIED they were bugs. It wasn't just on my server alone.

What I'd love to know is how you think that 1 Tier 3 Gear, the "HIGHEST" gear in the game, can qualify you for knowledge you clearly don't have.

You, my friend, are what's wrong with WoW -- Raider mentality. Because YOU think you have the BEST guild who can get you 1 piece of gear in 1 months of "HARD WORK" you are somehow more knowledgable than others who do their research.

Seriously dude, you know spit.

While I don't like WoW GMs, they don't lie when they say it's an issue on all servers. It's hard enough to get them to admit to issues to begin with. If you really want I can quote your extremely long post and say you're full of bs at each one of your quote stops, but I don't think I need to.


And, btw -- either your guild doesn't know what it's doing or you don't know how to bank your DKP. 1 tier 3 gear in 4 weeks is slow. I really wouldn't be bragging that you can get to level 60 in 1 month either, especially when it's to someone who has 1 60 of each class (except shaman) in the game (I quested all of them to that height without the need for twinking or power leveling).

 

[g1real]

I agree with kevins on some parts, even if I don't know much of endgame (I never got a mount XD). I DO know that expierence can beat a Tier 3 equip, nicely.

On the other account, Kevin, could you proof and verify that the GM's said that?

On the other side, again. Kevin is also right about the "Raider" mentality. People who think they're all, and are superiour to other, but in the end know nothing, are generally called NOOBS. Not that I say you know nothing.

Newb = Learning Player in a game who is willing to learn
n00b = Learning Player who thinks he knows all, while he fails at it.


What's the point of this discussion anyway? Wanna proof you're right?

Children do that too.