[Discuss] SC2 Mini-Tournament Amendments Pre-#3

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Miz

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Amendments - Community Discussion

Well as the Second Mini-Tournament came to a close, many of you insisted on having another one hosted as soon as possible. However when I was reading all of your different discussions to me I came to the conclusion that we need a community discussion about the next tournament and what changes should be enacted before the next match up even begins.


In this thread will we be discussing the Rules of the Tournaments, the Maps in the map pool, the type of match ups and any changes that you think would be nice to have in this tournament.

Any member, regardless if you played in any past mini-tournaments or not, can make a suggestion or recommend changes to how the Tournament is conducted.

Below are references to the current way of doing things and as well possible areas that can be changed...

The Tournament's Thread & Miz
A Mini-Tournament Series is composed of 2 or more Tournaments hosted in different realms (mainly because of Blizzard's lack of Cross-Regional play). Each Mini-Tournament will receive its own post under the main first post that includes: a bracket, a players list (that includes their names, profile links and races), and any other information needed for that specific realm's player. These post will also link to further brackets later on the thread and updates on the tournament.

Any of you can recommend a change in how I conduct the Tournament (such as wishing to remove the bracket pages and images, doing the realm posts differently, etc.), or you can even request that another person take my place in hosting the Tournaments. (Though it is a lot of work).

You can also suggest changing any images/banners you may have a distaste for in the thread. Please just post the appropriate link to the image you are talking about.

However please be respectful in your comments. If you wish to make a change in this area please format your post in a similar fashion:
Proposed Changed To: The Tournament & Miz
Your Desired Change:
Explanation: (Here you should explain the basis of your new regulation and why it is important to include it. Remember that you are trying to make a case not to me but to the rest of the community. While I do have the final say, it is really up to your peers if it gets brought into reality or not)

Rules & Regulations
Below is the list of Rules that the Tournament abides by, all previous amendments that were added in before the second tournament are also noted at the end of the list.

To suggest a change in the Rules or how games are played, please post below with your recommendation. Your comments should be condensed into a similar format as the current sheet:
Proposed Changed To: Rules & Regulations
Type: (A New Rule or an Amendment to a previous rule)
Explanation: (Here you should explain the basis of your new regulation and why it is important to include it. Remember that you are trying to make a case not to me but to the rest of the community. While I do have the final say, it is really up to your peers if it gets brought into reality or not)

Current Rules & Regulations
1) All games MUST be played on the Server that is designated as host for that specific mini-tournament.

2) All Talk inside the Games should be held in ENGLISH.

3) Players must be respectful to one another at all times within the Tournament. This means no taunting, spamming, or insulting your opponent, as well as rage quitting. We expect you guys to act like adults, so we will not be afraid to enforce this and punishment may extend to your removal from the tournament or even future tournaments.

4) Games can be played against your match up whenever the most time is convenient for both of you. Matches do not have to be held all at once, and can be held at separate times or even separate days. However, games must be played within the given time for that Round.

5) The Maps that you will be playing on for each of the games per round will be selected at random from a pool and given to both you and your match-up. YOU MUST PLAY THE MAPS CORRESPONDING TO THE CORRECT GAME IN THE MATCH UP. YOUR GAMES WILL NOT COUNT IF YOU PLAY THEM OUT OF ORDER OR PLAY DIFFERENT MAPS THAN THE ONES GIVEN.

6) Each Player beforehand will be able to pick two maps he or she would like to void from their game pool. These Voided Maps will not be selected for your match up. However, once the tournament begins these two choices can NOT be changed. So for the most part if you submit them, your stuck with them. So choose wisely.

7) Each player will also be selecting from 4 Race Selections before the tournament even starts. These four extend to Terran, Protoss, Zerg and Random. You can choose ONE of these selections to be your Race for the whole tournament. Players will not be allowed to change their race selection once the tournament begins or anytime after. So once again choose with care.

8) The out come of a Disconnection in a Game will be decided by the two opponents. If both players agree that the game was NOT completely one sided to the point that it was obvious who was going to win. The said game will have a rematch ether immediately or at a later date. (If conflict between the two players occurs, please contact me or post in the thread with the replay and we will review it). This regulation applies for all games, except for the Finals. (See Regulation #13)

9) As well, on the Rare Occasions of a Tie (Where there are no longer any more minerals or attacking units on the field from both sides) the game will end in a rematch.

10) In any cases where Both Players wish to have a rematch for any reason (such as Scheduling problems, Real Life interference, etc.), the players are allowed to hold a Rematch. If both players do not agree, the player that is requesting the Rematch will be forced to forfeit that said matchup.

11) Rematches for a said match can be played ether immediately or at a later time/date but MUST be played before the next map in the match-up order can be played. All Rematches must be played on the same map as the game in conflict.

12) Replays from each game must be submitted to the thread, by ether the two players or any of the spectators involved. This is important for us to ether look back at the game to make a judgment call and also to later make into videos for others to see.

13) Spectators and Observers are allowed in all matches! However, they can not talk specifically to the two players involved in the game (and I mean in anyway), nor can they give any unfair advantage to one or any of the players in the game. All Regulations apply to the Spectators and Observers involved just as if they were any other player. Any rule breaking behavior between Spectators and Observers will result in harsh consequences.

14) For the Final Match-up, all games must contain at least one approved referee from the correct realm list. These Referees will make all judgment calls on Disconnections, Ties, Behavior Problems and will report back that the results posted by the players of each final game is accurate. *This Regulation does include the Grand Champion Matchups but it does not affect Third Place matchups where the referee is still optional.

15) To keep the Tournament as streamline as possible, Players must communicate with their opponents in some form (preferably in Private Messages). If a Player in the match up becomes extremely inactive and has not responded to their opponent on the basis of scheduling their match ups by the deadline of the round. The player that is inactive and has not responded will be kicked from the Tournament and will be restricted from joining the next tournament. If the reasons for your Inactivity were Personal or out of your control you can contact me and the punishments will be ether wavered or lessened.

16) And last but not least, do not forget in the heat of the games to enjoy yourself and have fun.​
Past Amendments
Amendment to Regulation 6 - Your Voided Maps can be changed as many times as you would like in your submission post (it does not have to be announced) until the tournament begins where at that point you will be stuck with whatever is posted.

Amendment to Regulation 7 - Same as Regulation 6 except when it comes to Races. Races can be changed as many times as you would like in your submission post (preferably this one be announced) until the tournament begins, where at that point you will be stuck with what you got.

Adding of Regulation 10 - If in any cases where Both Players agree to have a Rematch for any reason, they can do so.

Highlight in Regulation 13 - Observers can not specifically communicate to any player privately under any circumstances. (We had problems with that last tournament)

Amendment to Regulation 14 - In third place match ups, unlike last tournament, they do not require a referee.

Adding of Regulation 15 - Opponent Inactivity in a Matchup - This one is important so you should go up and read that one specifically.

Matchups & Gameplay
Currently all past Mini-Tournaments we have had were made up of 1v1 matches in a single-elimination style tournament structure. Players in each round (except for the Finals and Grand Finals) had to win the best of two out of three maps in their matches (Best out of Five for Finals and Above).

There has been a mixed opinion with this, which is why I am extremely curious to see any recommendations on the issue of Matchups. Some individuals want double elimination, some want 2v2 Tournaments and others want to include a Free for All style match at the end for the entire realm.

Some of you have also desired to change how matchups are determined and as well as maps. Preferring a "selecting system" (though I am not sure exactly how that would be fair and work), over the completely randomized system of play. This of course is up for further discussion.

Rewards can also be changed in any of your recommendations, if you think we can include a better (more reasonable) reward. Please also post below.

Your recommendation should be in the format of the quote box below:
Proposed Changed To: Matchup & Gameplay
Your Desired Change:
Explanation: (Here you should explain the basis of your new regulation and why it is important to include it. Remember that you are trying to make a case not to me but to the rest of the community. While I do have the final say, it is really up to your peers if it gets brought into reality or not)

The Map Pool
Now this is the category I am sure is going to have the most discussion. I can't even tell you how many people have complained about the current map pool, and I am pretty sure that a majority of players want me to just dump the current map pool and fill it with various others.

However there are some requirements for suggesting a map: First, It should be easily obtainable, and Secondly, It shouldn't favor any particular race (at least in any major way). Preferably maps suggested should be ones included in other tournaments or ones that are fairly popular right now.

I would like to have though at least 10 maps in our map pool that we can agree upon. You guys can agree upon more if you like (just remember that means less you can exempt from your own pool)

Current Map Pool
Blistering Sands (2)
Desert Oasis (2)
Scrap Station (2)
Steppes of War (2)
Xel'Naga Caverns (2)
Incineration Zone (2)
Kulas Ravine (4)
Lost Temple (4)
Metalopolis (4)
Delta Quadrant (4)
(Added 2nd Tournament) Jungle Basin (2)
(Added 2nd Tournament) Shakuras Plateau (4)​
Proposed Changed To: The Map Pool
Your Desired Change: (A new map or a removal of any current maps [Yes you can say all of them])
Your Desired New Map:
Your Maps Allowed Match ups: (1v1, 2v2, etc.)
A Link to your Maps Information: (Preferable not Required)
Previous Tournaments your map has featured in: (Preferable not Required)
Explanation: (Here you should explain the basis of your new regulation and why it is important to include it. Remember that you are trying to make a case not to me but to the rest of the community. While I do have the final say, it is really up to your peers if it gets brought into reality or not)


You are Free to Post any Ideas you have at anytime in this discussion, you can also freely respond to anyone else's ideas as well. Just please remember to be Respectful to one another and keep this thread relatively clean and organized.

Polls and other options may be used if required.

Please remember that all proposed changes are up to the discretion of the Staff and Myself.​
 

Monsterous

In the Shadows, Lurking.
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Proposed Changed To: The Map Pool
Your Desired Change: Remove Lost Temple
Your Desired New Map: Add Shattered Temple
Your Maps Allowed Match ups: 1v1
A Link to your Maps Information: Not needed, its in the 1v1 map list.
Explanation: Its more balanced - as it removes the platforms at the natural expansion, and links it to the islands. Shattered rocks also block the pathways. This makes the natural far less abusable for say siege tank drops etc.

Alternatively, keep Lost, and add Shattered temple?
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
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413
Proposed Changed To: Matchup & Gameplay
Your Desired Change: Add pools.
Explanation: I really think adding matchup pools will really be good as you can have four pools and winners of those pools can advance to the next pool etc. etc. The losers can then fight the losers of their pools and this will help line up players by ranking a lot easier. The current way doesn't do much for that except for 3rd, 2nd, and 1st.

Proposed Changed To: The Map Pool
Your Desired Change: Change all of the maps
Your Desired New Map: All maps to their respective MLG/GSL counterparts as well as adding any other MLG/GSL maps.
Your Maps Allowed Match ups: 1v1 and 2v2
A Link to your Maps Information: MLGPro.com information on the recent MLG Columbus map pool
Previous Tournaments your map has featured in: MLG Columbus and previous MLG tournaments
Explanation: These maps include features that help stabilize and balance games especially in ZvT/P. The added supply depot blocker really helps in stopping quick wall offs, however I believe that this is also a mechanic of that race and understand that this is how it is to be played in many cases. This will just help with balance, I think.

Proposed Changed To: Matchup & Gameplay
Your Desired Change: Add Team Tournaments
Explanation: I think that in lieu of our fun-loving members I really think this would help generate hype for the tournament as people can relax more in this type of tournament and thus have more fun. We can see some pretty fun things here.

Proposed Changed To: Matchup & Gameplay
Your Desired Change: Add Monobattle Tournaments
Explanation: Following the previous additions I believe team tournaments can only be accompanied by monobattle tournaments! Team Tournaments can be for more standard play whereas monobattle tournaments can be for even more expansion on the fun aspect of our tournaments.

My suggested changes after experiences on ladder with Skype and friends.
 

Vestras

Retired
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I would like to change a variety of things.
First of all the map pool; everything should be erased and be replaced with the following list:
MLG Xel Naga Caverns
MLG Metalopolis
MLG Shattered Temple
MLG Shakuras Plateau
GSTL GSL Bel'Shir Beach
GSTL GSL Crossfire
GSTL GSL Crevasse
GSTL GSL Tal'Daram Altar
GSTL GSL Terminus RE

Possibly more GSL maps, but I think that's ok.
Second, I would like to suggest new formats to how games are played, giving people more chances at advancing:
There will be X amount of starting groups with 4 players in them each. (X being amount of total people divided with 4)
Each round the top (Amount of players in group - 1) will proceed. The top being the ones with most wins.

Another thing I'd like to see as an addition rather than a replacement for the way players proceed would be a "Team League", like GSTL.
There's a team of 4 people competing against another team of 4 people. The first team to reach 4 wins wins the match. When one players losses, the team decided upon which player to send in next, and so on.

Also I would like to see a change in the way maps are decided. I think the starting map should be random, and then losing player picks next map.
Also I think generic matches should be BO5 and finals and above should be BO7.

I might have more, but I have to think now :D
 

Slapshot136

Divide et impera
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I would like to propose a double elimination tournament (possibly similar to what vestras said, but I don't quite follow him)
 

Slapshot136

Divide et impera
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the round-robin seems like it would make the tournament last way longer, my double elim would only add 1 additional round, personally I would be fine with either, but I think we would have a lot of issues with people not playing all/most of their matches..

I would also like to vote against monobattles
 

s3rius

Linux is only free if your time is worthless.
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Proposed Changed To: Matchup & Gameplay
Your Desired Change: Add Loser's pick
Explanation:
Randoming the map that are played might make one side favored. You might be unlucky and only get maps you're bad at or that are generally considered to by unfriendly for your race.
Loser's Pick would mean: The first map is a rather neutral pre-defined one (like Shattered, Metalo, etc). The loser of this map is allowed to choose the next map. The loser of this one will chose the map after, etc.
Even with the map pool Vestras suggested - as a Terran I'd be very unhappy to have to play on Terminus and Tal'Darim against Zerg.
The player may choose from a pool of all acceptable tournament and ladder maps.
That'd also get rid of the damned chance that you play the same map several times in a single match up. I remember someone had to play on Desert Oasis twice? Lol.

Regarding the player pool style:
I don't know if we have enough players for that.. Also, sometimes people need quite some time to finish their games, that'd drag the pool play out quite a bit.
 

Miz

Administrator
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@Add Loser's pick (From both s3rius and Vestras)

I can see this actually working in the map play fairly and overall have no problem doing this as long as the loser has to pick the maps from the designated map pool.
However do we keep Voided Maps included in the tournaments or do you (as the winner) just have to accept what you receive in the first match and/or what your opponent picks?

@Double Elimination and Pool Usage

I am concerned with these kind of tournament styles mainly just because it lengthens the tournament considerably and we might not have as many people needed to do that kind of thing. While it does give more people time to play one another, it also makes the current tournament longer. Meaning we will have to have less tournaments overall.

The True reason why I call these Mini-Tournament is that, true we don't necessarily have as many people required for a massive tournmanet (especially on two leagues), but its also because with smaller tournaments we can have more variations of tournaments for everyone to get experience in.

Rotation System for Tournament Types
Proposed Changed To: Matchup & Gameplay
Your Desired Change: A Rotation System for Each Individual Tournament's Matchup Type
Explanation: This is what I would call a Rotation Style System, or rather the type of Tournament Matchup (1v1, 2v2, Monobattles, Relay/Team (Vestras' one), etc.) would be on a rotation from Tournament to Tournament.

An example of this would be that Tournament 3 is a 1v1, but Tournament 4 will be a 2v2. Except that Tournament 4 will be a 2v2 with only 4 Teams (instead of 8 individuals) in the brackets. Then the next Tournament would be Monobattles or whatever else you guys would like to play.

Or instead of Rotation that you guys could have a poll for whatever style of Tournament you want after the previous one.​

Thus with more Tournaments we can do more things people will want to do.

@Extending regular matches to have Best out of 5, and Finals to Best out of 7.

This is also why I am hesitant to have the Best of out 5 for Regular matches, because that too also lengthens

However all of this stuff is really up to you guys if you want to do it or not.
 

Vestras

Retired
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I have been thinking a bit. And I have come up witrh a new suggestion to the TH Tournament format:

My idea is having a "THL" - TheHelper Star League - based on points; matches will be arranged, where the winner of the BO3 will have X amount of points. The four players with most points each month will battle it out for the first, second and third place. When entering a new month, your points will be reset. Each TH Mini Tournament win (or X placement) will add X amount of points.

When a new month starts, sign ups will be open. After X amount of days, sign ups will be closed and matches will be scheduled. Matches will have a relatively short deadline, like maybe a week, since quite a lot of matches are going to be played. If one person doesn't show up to a match, the person who does show up will recieve the points. For each game win (note: not match win), a player will recieve X amount of points. For a match win, a player will recieve X amount of points. There will probably be something like 4 matches to play per month, meaning that each player per region will probably have a chance to play eachother.

When the respective region finals are done, one big grand finals should be held between the top 4 of each region. This will act like a TH Mini Tournament will round-based elimination until the finals.
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
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I think that the perfect tournament setting is more than fine. Only thing I would change is make it "looser's pick".

There are hundreds of tournaments on a weekly basis and if anyone want's a bigger competition with divisions, monthly points and so on, can check out TSL. Their community is dedicated soully to pvp. I don't think that making the tourney hard-core is what we are looking for here, but it is your call, I am fine with almost anything.
 

Miz

Administrator
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I have been thinking a bit. And I have come up witrh a new suggestion to the TH Tournament format:

My idea is having a "THL" - TheHelper Star League - based on points; matches will be arranged, where the winner of the BO3 will have X amount of points. The four players with most points each month will battle it out for the first, second and third place. When entering a new month, your points will be reset. Each TH Mini Tournament win (or X placement) will add X amount of points.

When a new month starts, sign ups will be open. After X amount of days, sign ups will be closed and matches will be scheduled. Matches will have a relatively short deadline, like maybe a week, since quite a lot of matches are going to be played. If one person doesn't show up to a match, the person who does show up will recieve the points. For each game win (note: not match win), a player will recieve X amount of points. For a match win, a player will recieve X amount of points. There will probably be something like 4 matches to play per month, meaning that each player per region will probably have a chance to play eachother.

When the respective region finals are done, one big grand finals should be held between the top 4 of each region. This will act like a TH Mini Tournament will round-based elimination until the finals.

From my discussion with Vestras, what he desires to do is create a 1v1 League that has a separate entity from the Mini-Tournaments (That will explore in more things other than the standard 1v1). It will utilize a point system of sorts or something similar to that.

Mini-Tournaments will still occur on there own and do things people desire to do. Like 2v2, Monobattles, etc. However with the Rewards you get at the end of each Mini-Tournament, it will be worth a large amount of match up points in the League as well. That is all basic proposal stuff that Vestras desires to do, which would probably be altered if you guys like the idea.

The so-called League would be more for serious 1v1 play similar to that of a MLG tournament, whereas Mini-Tournaments would be more for casual play. I am not sure if we have enough people to preform something like this but all ideas are welcome in this discussion and I will work for something like this if there is enough support for it from the community.

I was slightly confused myself, which is why I am posting this if you guys were also confused.
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
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In that case, let's see if there are enough people to form a league.

Anyone who is up for it, say so.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
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+1 for THL, other Tournament Leagues, and -1 towards Bo5/7 on anything except Finals. I feel everything should be Bo3 except Finals which should be Bo5 or Bo7.
 

Slapshot136

Divide et impera
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I think we should have a poll of how many games would people be willing to play vs an opponent, and how long should the tournament last first

maybe some sort of agreement between players such that they can choose to play best of 5/7 if they want, and when they meet their opponent, they play the minimum # of matches (between them & their opponent), that way if 2 people who have more time and can play best of 5, then they can, but if 1 person is busy and can only do a best of 3, then best of 3 it is
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
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For that monthly thing that Vestras was talking about, I feel that half-year seasons would be a better choice. Points aren't reset as often and people will be more able to fall in with their respective skill-level crowds. People won't get "reset" every month and have to work their way back up. It'd be a more accurate measurement of their skills because your points won't get reset every month.
 

s3rius

Linux is only free if your time is worthless.
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@Add Loser's pick (From both s3rius and Vestras)

I can see this actually working in the map play fairly and overall have no problem doing this as long as the loser has to pick the maps from the designated map pool.
However do we keep Voided Maps included in the tournaments or do you (as the winner) just have to accept what you receive in the first match and/or what your opponent picks?

I think as long as the map pool is more up-to-date (there is a reason why a lot of those maps aren't played anymore..) there shouldn't be a problem. I don't think we actually need voided maps anymore in this case.

About the "THL" - I don't think it'd turn out that well.
First we don't have a lot of players anyway, even if we pool US and EU together. And I think a good percentage of the people who participated in the THT #2 don't visit this site often or don't even play melee anymore (or only seldomly).
And also there's a large difference in the players' skill. We'd probably see the same faces rise to the top and duke it out again and again.
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
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I think as long as the map pool is more up-to-date (there is a reason why a lot of those maps aren't played anymore..) there shouldn't be a problem. I don't think we actually need voided maps anymore in this case.

About the "THL" - I don't think it'd turn out that well.
First we don't have a lot of players anyway, even if we pool US and EU together. And I think a good percentage of the people who participated in the THT #2 don't visit this site often or don't even play melee anymore (or only seldomly).
And also there's a large difference in the players' skill. We'd probably see the same faces rise to the top and duke it out again and again.

/agree
 
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