Mysterious new HotS unit

[Romek]

For the record: If protoss gets an AoE air unit, I'll switch to protoss. Feel free to quote me on that.

Done.

 

[Bloodcount]

i was meaning something that uses supply as a defense would diminish your offensive strength

and sure the cost is high for the protoss units, but early game toss should play defensively anyway, and late game if you propperly expand with a defensive toss you can make a game ending army with no problems, they have some of the strongest late game units and are great for defensive play and resource stockpiling, to warp in a ton of units almost instantly lol

I have to write a few posts with max characters so that I can explain the situation about protoss expansions from all 3 races's sides.
To cut this short: Terran and zerg can get a third base faster up than toss, because well, zerg just can it is built in the race's mechanics and as long as the terrans are building bio units (marine marauder in this perticular scenario) they can get a fast third + have enough make a small push or defend most 2 base pushes/all-ins.

The problem with toss is that the gateway units are shit when not abusing the 6 gate timing window. By shit I mean they don't have the DPS of the terran bio. Which means that you must tech. Your tech can be invested into harass (phoenixes, voidrays warp prisms) into AoE (collosi, high templar).

This is a personal dislike about the race desighn, since when I go macro I like to go all out macro- with a lot of expansions early game a lot of harass, attacks counter attacks and sieges in the mid and late game and I can't really do that a lot.

I have a lot of faith that the oracle and the changes to the nexus can fill this hole. Or in other words: I hope that with a few freezing of builds and 1 or 2 mineral field raids, + some energy on the nexus in order to summon those plasma cannons should I need to, I really, really, really hope that I will be able to expand as often as protoss as I would like too ^_^

 

[GFreak45]

i totally agree thats why i said defensively, in conjunction with photon canons they arent THAT bad and they can be at any of your bases within seconds and toss t1 units arent bad against terran, just gotta know how to use em right, just throw a few force fields up and all of a sudden terran marine spammers are doing 1/2 the damage
i always tech with protoss, usually go immortals then collosi and air :/

 

[Bloodcount]

Although the photon cannons are better than the gateway units, it is not advisable to place them unless you are certain that you will face a marine marauder only attack from the front. Nothing sucks more than facing marine tank (outragne) or having to deal with drops when you have invested in static defence at your front.

Against zerg, early game you need 1-2 to make sure you don't die to all ins (cannons + good placement of buildings and decent scouting)

The stim+ general cost and production time of the terran biological units is what makes them that good against protoss, if the protoss gateway units were a match for the MMM, we wouldn't tech to AoE units to begin with : P

Still, there are players such as adelscott who are using gateway units exclusively. Infact he had a build which included a fast expand+cannons for defence into a lot of upgraded chargelot/sentry/stalker with fast expos. If I find a replay I will upload it here, it sounds a lot like what you explained in your post : P (I am not sure I will be able to find a replay but I will try, the last time I saw it was in the last TSL against... some terran or protoss not sure)

 

[Accname]

bloodcount, seriously, you are winning quite a bit about those bio units. How about switching races? Lol.

Dont take this as offense, just a little joke here and there to make this a forum rather then a chat session.

 

[GFreak45]

or more people could chime in lol, instead of being a 2 person conversation it could be an actual discussion lol

 

[Bloodcount]

I play zerg on a master level as well, truth is a few months ago I decided I will stick with one race... and I chose protoss. So now I am sticking with protoss. : P

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

I play zerg on a master level as well, truth is a few months ago I decided I will stick with one race... and I chose protoss. So now I am sticking with protoss. : P

tsk tsk tsk.

and anyway, if anything we have the right to complain, toss and t get 3 new units, we only get two. that shredder looks like it will just completely deny any ling harrass attempts, as shown in that vid, and the protoss arc shield will make ling run-ins get denied as a protoss too.

also about that aoe air unit, it looks like it can take quite the damage. in that video the person attacked with A LOT of mutas and not a single ship died.

 

[GFreak45]

he is right... i think it will be like an air collosi

 

[Nigerianrulz]

but we got more upgrades than the other races so it kinda balances out. Though i still think the swarm host is pretty useless... takes 25 second to spawn 2 locust which moves so slowly, and you obviously wouldnt want to make 6 of them cause they will be kinda expensive and they wont contribute to the main fight. Also the siphon ability on the corruptor is just.... i much rather corruption than that, like srsly unless it kills a building quickly, then its just a waste of an ability. and also like jedi said there will be no more ling run bys unless you throw away alot of lings, so the only option will be on muta, infestor and roaches but muta is not going to be a viable option with the new aoe tempest and the more mobile warhound. Leaving the infestor and the roach in which you will have to pray they dont have detection. Leaving the only other option, nydus worms, which can be effective but easily deniable.

And to bloodcount about how they are not adding units to the deathball, they said in blizzcon that they specifically didnt want to make the protoss deathball even bigger.

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

Leaving the only other option, nydus worms, which can be effective but easily deniable.

We could always try drops... but we all saw how well that worked out for idra in mlg against MC ._.

And to bloodcount about how they are not adding units to the deathball, they said in blizzcon that they specifically didnt want to make the protoss deathball even bigger.

and thank god for that

 

[Bloodcount]

Also the siphon ability on the corruptor is just.... i much rather corruption than that,

Let me quote myself from a convo I had with Romek over skype last night
[24.10.2011 г. 22:04:39] BlooDCounT: actually
[24.10.2011 г. 22:04:45] BlooDCounT: 20x60- 1200
[24.10.2011 г. 22:04:47] BlooDCounT: per minute
[24.10.2011 г. 22:04:52] BlooDCounT: which is a 2 base income
[24.10.2011 г. 22:04:56] BlooDCounT: full 2 base income

so the only option

Option to what ?


Wait, wait, wait you are saying that zerg won't have any viable options after the new expansion ?

And to bloodcount about how they are not adding units to the deathball, they said in blizzcon that they specifically didnt want to make the protoss deathball even bigger.

The deathball is quite blockable now, and by adding new units to the arsenal of other races and keeping the deathball the way it is will reduce it's effectivity a lot (on theory) And I am interested to know what other unit compositions that don't form a ball you can point out for protoss : )

EDIT: hm.. I think the tempest and the collosus are ment to work together. Like, they both pretty much balance eachother out (the tempest protects the collosus and the collosus deals good ammount of damage on the ground. Both units together cost 600/500 per 12 supply, but it might be worth it. I think that having 50 supply from these units will be much better than having 70-80 supply worth of gateway units... but we will see there is a lot of time before HOTS is realeased.



Speaking of which, anyone have any assumptions about the release date ?

 

[Nigerianrulz]

Let me quote myself from a convo I had with Romek over skype last night
[24.10.2011 г. 22:04:39] BlooDCounT: actually
[24.10.2011 г. 22:04:45] BlooDCounT: 20x60- 1200
[24.10.2011 г. 22:04:47] BlooDCounT: per minute
[24.10.2011 г. 22:04:52] BlooDCounT: which is a 2 base income
[24.10.2011 г. 22:04:56] BlooDCounT: full 2 base income

is that each individual corruptor? so 20 minerals every second?

Option to what ?
Wait, wait, wait you are saying that zerg won't have any viable options after the new expansion ?

option to harrass, i never said they wont have any, it will be less than before.

The deathball is quite blockable now, and by adding new units to the arsenal of other races and keeping the deathball the way it is will reduce it's effectivity a lot (on theory) And I am interested to know what other unit compositions that don't form a ball you can point out for protoss : )

hence why your given more the oracle, more harassing option to keep the opponents deathball smaller than yours, not to mention the deathball is theoretically more mobile than the other 2 races with the recall on the nexus. its not like the deathball for toss is suddenly not viable either with the introduction of new units for the other races but i do think the tempest and the replicant needs more work.

 

[Bloodcount]

is that each individual corruptor? so 20 minerals every second?

yes

option to harrass, i never said they wont have any, it will be less than before.

It might be a bit harder, I suppose you wont be able to harass your enemy regardless of his composition (for example if he is going BIO, ling muta bling is unchanged) but yeah, the new units look like they will make zerg harass harder

i do think the tempest and the replicant needs more work.

Blizzard said that they are still under construction, which is good, since they don't look polished at all. We will see what makes the release of the expansion and what doesn't.

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

What siretu told me is starting to scare me... big possibility for cheese:
gas steal, arc shield the gas and bam, early game take out the entire mineral line

 

[Siretu]

Bloodcount, are you telling me each corruptor will give a 2-base eco?

This is what it sound like but you need 20 corruptors for a 2-base eco. Each corruptor gives 1 mineral / second.

The mechanic for the corruptor's siphon works as follows: Every 10 seconds, the corruptor deals 10 damage and gets 10 minerals.

Also, I don't think arc shield will make it into the game in it's current way. Will have a decent range or something instead of infinite as it is now.

Also, there are some other changes that we haven't mentioned yet:

Pylons wont provide power up on high ground. This means high ground warp-in is no longer possible.
Adrenal glands upgrade is removed.

Also(third also, I know I use the word too much), Ultralisks burrow charge does not require a research but has a 30 second cooldown.

Sources:
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/lkkzu/just_got_all_the_new_zerg_units_stats_armor_hp/
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/lm7e8/a_complete_list_of_all_multiplayer_hots/
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/lmg3u/hots_lowground_pylons_do_not_grant_power_to_high/

 

[Bloodcount]

I meant that 10 corruptors can generate the mineral income of 1 base.

I am treating the arc shield as a photon cannon (same range atleast)

The pylons on low ground, meh. I don't see why they should do it in the first place.

Ultralisks burrow charge does not require a research but has a 30 second cooldown.

Imba. (I am a man of my word, btw, welcome to the protoss. We have pylons !)

also, this is an interesting read: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/ne...toss-impressions-too-expensive-and-not-enough

WhiteRa said that.... White...Ra...

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

Adrenal glands upgrade is removed.

[youtube]WWaLxFIVX1s[/youtube]

ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

 

[Bloodcount]

pf, nice move blizzard.

This is just stupid in my oppinion. Why? T1 units should be used in the late game too... dispowering the zergling and buffing the hellion, hm... well doesn't change the fact that ultras are imba now (jkjk)

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

hydra speed and baneling tunneling jaws upgrades are hive-tech. more or less hive tech must be researched a lot earlier now it seems to allow for upgrades