Perfect Micro

[celerisk]

I'm sure you've all seen some "inhuman" micro, like splitting Marines vs Banelings or other such improbable combinations and impossible outcomes.


Imagine you were a bot.... a real good one... with an APM "over 9000" (more like 15000 actually, but at that point it's really just details).

Got that image?

Good.

Because you could do something like:

[youtube]DXUOWXidcY0[/youtube]


Or, even more insane, this:

[youtube]IKVFZ28ybQs[/youtube]


Clearly, I need some more training

 

[Slapshot136]

Clearly, I need some more training

x2- who needs maphacks when you can have microhacks

 

[Sevion]

What? You just just started doing this? I've been doing this since 1980.

 

[YourFace]

i could do that if i my mind was connected to the computer

 

[UndeadDragon]

Over-the-top examples like those really show the benefit of incredible micro-ing.

 

[Slapshot136]

I don't even know if the siege-tank one is micro or not.. the zerglings split before the shot was even fired, so how did the computer know which one the tank was targeting?

 

[Monsterous]

Well, if this was a done by a human with godlike powers, it would be basically being able to tell in a millisecond these things:

"What angle is the siege tank at?"
"What units are in that angle?"

Then, insanely quickly splitting said units.

Now ofcourse, in this example, the bot just knows which unit is being targetted, because he only splits one, not more, if in that "line" there was more than one unit.

 

[Sevion]

They used a predictive method by getting the nearest units with the most units around it.

It's a pretty simple method actually.

Or at least that's what they said.

 

[Romek]

I can do that.

 

[UndeadDragon]

I can do that.

Romek has over 9000 APM.

 

[celerisk]

It should be noted that this "bot" is NOT a third-party crack that somehow manages to interact with the game.
So, no, you won't suddenly start seeing it on ladder...

Presumably, it's "only" guessing at "what's the closest Zergling to a Tank that is looking for a target".
The entire thing is scripted through the, as it seems, extremely powerful, Map Editor.
Which doesn't make it any less amazing.


Yes, it's certainly impossible and over the top and no human ever... but I'd say the point is not to show what you can't do.

Instead, it shows what might come some day.
As in, there actually is a lot of potential for players to improve.
You can win improbable battles with sufficient micro (for some definition of "sufficient" ).

So, get training!


It's also not exactly new.
Insane micro already existed back in the days of SC1.

Random example:

[youtube]NcjQhig88wE[/youtube]



> Romek has over 9000 APM

No, he doesn't.

 

[Monsterous]

> Romek has over 9000 APM

No, he doesn't.

He has 9000 Actions per Millenia

 

[Bloodcount]

Just as a refrance:

I was top 20 in europe (diamond league, now I am not cuz I was afk for 1 week and I have a lot of catching up to do.)

I have genuine APM, this means that I don't spam like a nolifer just to get it higher, I start from ~40 and go up to 170 I think.

My point is that my average apm is ~110.

An average game is arround 17-20 minutes. Let's get 20 just for easier math. 110x20= 2200.

So on an average, I, who am not by any means a bad player do 2.2K actions per game. That isn't even a quarter of the actions per minute you need to have in order to make this......

 

[Siretu]

Just as a refrance:

I was top 20 in europe (diamond league, now I am not cuz I was afk for 1 week and I have a lot of catching up to do.)

I have genuine APM, this means that I don't spam like a nolifer just to get it higher, I start from ~40 and go up to 170 I think.

My point is that my average apm is ~110.

An average game is arround 17-20 minutes. Let's get 20 just for easier math. 110x20= 2200.

So on an average, I, who am not by any means a bad player do 2.2K actions per game. That isn't even a quarter of the actions per minute you need to have in order to make this......

To clarify, he's talking about top 20 in diamond which is rank 17,000~ in europe.

 

[Bloodcount]

if u wanna get ballzy about the ranks I do have an acc in masters league ;]

EDIT: GOD it is hard to get my mechanics up and running again.

 

[Slapshot136]

so what this means is in future games, I expect the AI's to genuinely play better on harder difficulties, as opposed to just having more units/health/resources/etc.

 

[s3rius]

The problem is it's hard to actually make a AI clever enough to utilize things like this. Especially if they're more dependend on the situation.

This fancy ling splitting, for example, could be done every time a Zerg AI meets tanks. But it's more like cheating since no normal player could do something like that and an AI is constructed to act like a normal player.

Things like the tank dropping (in smaller scale) is more like it. However to really use it cleverly the AI would have to keep a lot of variables in mind. It'd have to decide where to drop, it'd have to retreat if things like mutas or stimmed marines are there, it'd have to see whether there are units where this trick doesn't work (anti air, marauders, etc) or stop if there are units that could immobilize it (infestors). And probably more.
And that's not even the hardest challenge, because it still fits into the category of fancy micro. Actually making it do strategically clever moves and tactics is much harder.

Starcraft's race AI is written in Galaxy, which means it's considerably slower and more limited than AI usually is. Not the best ground for improvement, either ^^

 

[Slapshot136]

The problem is it's hard to actually make a AI clever enough to utilize things like this. Especially if they're more dependend on the situation.

This fancy ling splitting, for example, could be done every time a Zerg AI meets tanks. But it's more like cheating since no normal player could do something like that and an AI is constructed to act like a normal player.

Things like the tank dropping (in smaller scale) is more like it. However to really use it cleverly the AI would have to keep a lot of variables in mind. It'd have to decide where to drop, it'd have to retreat if things like mutas or stimmed marines are there, it'd have to see whether there are units where this trick doesn't work (anti air, marauders, etc) or stop if there are units that could immobilize it (infestors). And probably more.
And that's not even the hardest challenge, because it still fits into the category of fancy micro. Actually making it do strategically clever moves and tactics is much harder.

Starcraft's race AI is written in Galaxy, which means it's considerably slower and more limited than AI usually is. Not the best ground for improvement, either ^^

I would go with the stim-packed marines attacking once then running vs slower meele units as something that can be implemented.. now

the zerglings tank-dodging could also be implemented.. now - i.e. make the units split before the attack hits in order to avoid splash

and the AI is made to act like a human? I would rather they have insane micro then 2x the minerals/units/etc.

 

[Accname]

What they do against siege tanks should work for all units with area of effect damage output in general. like hellions and such.

 

[celerisk]

Remember Automaton 2000 from back up in post #1?
Here's his new bestest friend, meet Ursadak:


The show-it-off video:

[video=youtube;mrbYd4OFrWE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrbYd4OFrWE[/video]


The demonstration video:

[video=youtube;MbQLw4eNdZo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbQLw4eNdZo[/video]



Source: show, demo.